Greener Mail Initiative?

[GoldenRivet]

First and foremost... i do care for the environment but im NOT one of these hug a tree yuppies.

But let me start this story at the beginning.

I dont know about you guys, but every delivery day i walk to the end of the walkway to my mailbox and i collect my daily mail.

Sometimes there is a bill or two

sometimes there is an invitation to some friend's party, wedding or other event.

sometimes there might even be a letter.

but EVERY TIME there is junk

and the junk mail to relevant mail ratio is about 5:1 on a slow day.

There must be a factory somewhere churning out millions of tons of this junk anew every day. Credit card offers, cruise line offers, airline offers, coupons, advertisments. its literally enough to make me want to cement over my mail box door!

generally, this junk mail tends to be discarded to its designated place on the table until the wife and i have time to sort through it and determine what is relevant and whats not at the end of the week.

i kid you not... i just finished shredding a large garbage bag FULL of junk mail. seems like a huge waste! i know that some of you say "recycle it" but lets set that aside for a moment.

why recycle it? why not just do away with it altogether?

shouldnt we have some sort of law against this crap? shouldnt it be illegal to print millions of tons of superfluous crap and mail it... annoyingly to individual households?

we have the national DO NOT CALL registry. shouldnt we have a national DO NOT MAIL registry?

just annoying

and just my .02

[ETR3(SS)]

You bring up a very valid point. Now where is Al Gore when you need him?

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

First and foremost... i do care for the environment but im NOT one of these hug a tree yuppies.

But let me start this story at the beginning.

I dont know about you guys, but every delivery day i walk to the end of the walkway to my mailbox and i collect my daily mail.

Sometimes there is a bill or two

sometimes there is an invitation to some friend's party, wedding or other event.

sometimes there might even be a letter.

but EVERY TIME there is junk

and the junk mail to relevant mail ratio is about 5:1 on a slow day.

There must be a factory somewhere churning out millions of tons of this junk anew every day. Credit card offers, cruise line offers, airline offers, coupons, advertisments. its literally enough to make me want to cement over my mail box door!

generally, this junk mail tends to be discarded to its designated place on the table until the wife and i have time to sort through it and determine what is relevant and whats not at the end of the week.

i kid you not... i just finished shredding a large garbage bag FULL of junk mail. seems like a huge waste! i know that some of you say "recycle it" but lets set that aside for a moment.

why recycle it? why not just do away with it altogether?

shouldnt we have some sort of law against this crap? shouldnt it be illegal to print millions of tons of superfluous crap and mail it... annoyingly to individual households?

we have the national DO NOT CALL registry. shouldnt we have a national DO NOT MAIL registry?

just annoying

and just my .02

(Going from memory here)
As far as I remember there was an initiative awhile back to prevent the postal service from delivering the junk or at least make it possible to opt out of the junk mail stuff. The postal service argued that the loss of revenue would be substantial, and therefore it kept on doing it and wont stop it any time soon.

[Shearwater]

Every summer (and sometimes in between) I work for the mail service. I get almost always the day shift, which means that I deal with exactly the stuff you (and a whole lot of other people, including yours truly) find so annoying: catalogues, ads, you name it. And I must say that it's really amazing, or actually absurd, to see so much mail leave the building which is so blatantly bound for the bin. Of course, after some time you stop looking at the stuff save for the ZIP code, but still it's virtually the same every day, every week, every year. I don't complain about it - in fact, I'm really glad I can work there to earn some dearly needed money, and for a few weeks it's actually a nice break from studying. On the other hand, some of the people who work there regularly said that things really have changed - a few years before, there has been much more "proper" mail and less junk, as they say. That's when I always think that it's such non-electronic spam mail now that wins their bread.
I just wonder: If you don't want your mailbox to be stuffed with junk, can't you simply put a "no ads please" sticker on it? Over here, you actually don't get unadressed mail (the delivery people actually keep track of what people don't want that), but if your name is on it, there's nothing you can do.
And the figure of the day: Only 3% (yes, three) of all the people who get some sort of mail ads actually decide to buy something.

[Kratos]

I shred the junk,but always send the EMPTY pre-paid envelopes back, that way the sender has to pay for the crap they send me.

[CaptainHaplo]

Since electronic communication has become so prevalent, the post office has been losing money faster than amtrack. There was actually a proposal a few years ago to put a 1 cent "fee" for every email sent, which would be added to the post office operating fund.

I remember when stamp costs were single digit cents...

Today its what, 44 cents?

Most people pay bills and bank online, meaning so much "real" mail is no longer needed.

[Platapus]

One solution would be to raise the price of bulk mail. The reason companies use junk mail is because it is still cost effective.

By raising the price of bulk mail it won't be as cost effective any more and less companies will choose to use junk mail.

Less junk mail will also reduce the work load on the postal service which should save them some money as they can downsize.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Thomen

(Going from memory here)
As far as I remember there was an initiative awhile back to prevent the postal service from delivering the junk or at least make it possible to opt out of the junk mail stuff. The postal service argued that the loss of revenue would be substantial, and therefore it kept on doing it and wont stop it any time soon.

you are correct.

so what do you guys think would be a solution to the whole Postal Service cost effectiveness solution?

I think that they should get into the internet business.

They hook you up with internet service, and it costs 0$ per month

you get unlimited, unrestricted browsing time, and each e mail you send costs you $0.30. every e mail you receive from a non USPS.com e mail domain will cost you $0.05

at the end of the monthly billing cycle you pay the total of all sent and received e mails at the above mentioned rates.

i think the individual costs under that plan would be reasonable

[CaptainHaplo]

Would we name it the US Internet service?

What about people in the boonies who don't have access to internet? Oh wait, net neutrality will fix that.

Honestly, if they can't survive using their current business model, then they need to revamp the model. But not just FORCE all emails through a GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AGENCY - just so they can charge for it and exist.

Times change, and businesses fail. Is the USPS too big to fail now too? Apparently. Who cares if they offer a service that is no longer vital to the needs of the people, lets find ways to make them halfway solvent, regardless of the intrusion into people's lives.

And using your model, how would businesses fair? From small, under 10 people to companies employing thousands, what would their costs be? It would be prohibitive to say the least.

5 cents an email.... I get 100 emails a day. 1000 workers.
1000x100 = 100,000
100,000 x 5 cents = 500,000 cents - or $5000 dollars a day.

$5000.00 x 350 days = $!,750,000

One and three quarter MILLION dollars added to the cost of running a 1000 person business. As if there were not enough costs involved already. And thats just on what is RECIEVED - not what is sent! At 30 cents an email going out - your talking over 10 Million for that!

All so a service that can't compete can stay around.

Sorry GoldenRivet, but that idea is just... wrong!

[CaptainHaplo]

Never one to just say no - how is this for a solution?

The postal service loses money due to its need to transport weighty objects long distances. But the need of the consumer to get that "hard copy" is not nearly what was today.

So the mail needs to change the way it works. 1 day a week delivery of hard copy, true "mail". Keep its specialized delivery service (for large packages) if it is viable, else spin it off to UPS or FedEx or another private entity.

This will result in a drastic downsizing, but also decrease the crap you get in your mailbox. Saves trees, saves tax money. Not the greatest for jobs, though some would remain. The key here is it could then offer an electronic mail delivery service.

A company wants to send you a bill, they send the bill, electronically and encrypted, to you through the electronic USPS. The USPS accepts the mail, insures its delivery (via you having to certify its delivery electronically), and it would only cost a penny. That choice of going electronic - which granted not everyone will have, will save the consumer money (since the costs are passed on to you) and will save the biller money. Sure they could just email it to you, but then they can't show you got it. Return reciept? Pfft, my kid opened my email and clicked stuff, I never saw it. But logging into the USPS e-delivery service? No deniabilty there.

Course, they would need alot of technically skilled people to pull that off. Probably have to hire alot of them, or maybe retrain the sorting machine folks.... Tech jobs pay pretty well...

No - this isn't a perfect plan, it would need alot of tweaking, because it could be grown into the USPS certifying the security of epayment data, etc.

Properly done, the USPS itself would never be able to see the raw data, since it SHOULD be encrypted, PGP style. That protects everyone. Creates skilled jobs. Saves people money.

[Shearwater]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

A company wants to send you a bill, they send the bill, electronically and encrypted, to you through the electronic USPS. The USPS accepts the mail, insures its delivery (via you having to certify its delivery electronically), and it would only cost a penny. That choice of going electronic - which granted not everyone will have, will save the consumer money (since the costs are passed on to you) and will save the biller money. Sure they could just email it to you, but then they can't show you got it. Return reciept? Pfft, my kid opened my email and clicked stuff, I never saw it. But logging into the USPS e-delivery service? No deniabilty there.

IIRC, that's what Deutsche Post is working on right at the moment, though it's still in its initial phase. Called an e-Brief (or "e-letter"). I don't know how it works exactly, but in any case it's some form of encrypted email that isn't free of charge, but has all the advantages you've mentioned above. If you wish, you can send it through email, and the receiver gets a printed letter.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Sorry GoldenRivet, but that idea is just...
wrong!

I never said it was the end all be all solution to the problem.

i do feel that the USPS serves a critical function.

the problem here is that the internet has come along, and technology has come along and these forces have changed everything about the way our society functions.

unfortunately a lot of businesses... especially those federal businesses... are playing catch up, or they are wandering around lost in a world which is altogether unfamiliar to the way they have existed since the dawn of this nation.

EDIT:

i wonder how much of a part the companies like UPS and FedEx are playing into the downfall of the USPS.

The federal government awarded these rights and privilages to UPS and FEDEX, they mostly deliver boxed goods.

Seems that the USPS would be doing substantially better business wise if FEDEX and UPS were no more... but now we have an issue of Government intrusion on private enterprise.

[CaptainHaplo]

I didn't mean that personal mate. Just the numbers look horrible for business uses if its "mandatory email thu the USPS". Actually your plan was what opened up my thoughts on e-delivery.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

I didn't mean that personal mate.

Oh i know.

but this situation is getting out of hand.

you know my original post was made mostly in jest - however it has brought up a broader set of issues.

perhaps the postal service should downsize considerably?

perhaps upon their downsizing they should continue to deliver paper mailings.

but in addendum to the paper stuff they should diversify into other methods of delivery.

I do think that the postal service is important... but they need to adapt to modern times.

even if it means stamps have to cost $0.95 each.

but the fact that the USPS is delivering GARBAGE to my house (literally) just so they can continue to barely make ends meet is NOT a good thing

[CaptainHaplo]

I agree they provide a useful service.

But we are a free market economy, provide what the customer needs at a decent rate, or get run out of business.

They do need to downsize tremendously - though getting any government entity to do so is like pulling teeth in the dark by yourself - with a screwdriver.

Yet a 1 day a week delivery, as well as "special deliveries" on whatever day for an additional cost, would drastically save money.

Diversifying their service to areas of the market that are untouched is only smart. You think mail, you think USPS. They are THE brand - so they should leverage that into the areas where they have lost revenue. It could be done, and would end up keeping them not only viable without ever growing government subsidies, but it would also help us develop and keep a highly skilled technical pool of people. As the world shrinks due to globalization, we need to have people skilled to facilitate our role there. Right now, IT jobs are like all the other types - not enough of them out there, and without the demand, you won't have people with the skills.