Anyway to tweak the planes in TMO 1.7?

[MK2]

I was wondering if there was a file that I could change in order to tone down the airplanes in TMO 1.7 ?

Since march 1942- June 1942, I have only spotted planes and I have been up and down the Japnese coast, the Formosa Straights, the Solomon Islands you name it dodging every imaginable depth charge and being spotted at 175 feet...it gets s bit tiresome.

Can I switch the planes back to stock levels?

[Rockin Robbins]

No. You are doomed..... Not really Actually I am in an S-Boat right now in TMO 1.8 and not having problems with planes. Hint: don't be seen. They call friends.

Do a search around and look in Ducimus' Readme that nobody friggin' reads (actual title) for pointers. The easy way out, Webster's aircraft nerfer (whatever it's called) will mess up TMO really good and I wouldn't recommend it. So long as you use JSGME and uninstall mods in the reverse order from what you installed you should be able to undo the inevitable mod soup if you want to try Webster's mod.

I would recommend making your peace with the airplanes like the real captains did and develop procedures for minimizing their effects. Not being seen is technique #1.

[Bubblehead1980]

MK2, back to stock levels, are you serious? Stock levels were way worse than TMO.

Don't cruise the Solomons in stock or TMO unless you are running RSRD or go to the mission editor and add some traffic yourself(as i did) , because there is no traffic to speak of in the Solomons in TMO.

As Robbins pointed out don't get sighted, just dive and stay under for a few, don't get spotted and MOST of the time your contacts will stay at realistic levels.When enemy airbases in the area are alerted, as long as you are in range, the skies are going to be full.

[Ducimus]

Firstly, i am aware that aircraft spawn rates in some areas can be excessive. This is being addressed in the 1.8 beta. Since i've seen B&M's crop up in 3 different threads about aircraft in TMO, guess it's time i reexplain again the why's and what's of aircraft in TMO.

Why did you make it so aircraft can detect me underwater?

Two reasons.

1.) Aircraft detecting shallow submerged objects is possible, and even historically correct. Look around the net, and you'll find various pictures of submarines visible below the surface from the air. For one example, look at the 3rd picture down at this url:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08360.htm

I know some folks will argue hypotheticals and beat this one 9 ways to sunday to convince me to remove this, but i am not interested in such debates because......

2.) Stock aircraft visual detection, combined with SD radar, made aircraft nothing but a joke, a complete non threat, and nothing more then an annoyance. It is my belief that aircraft are an important element of a submarine sim, and should be a threat to the player. With SD radar, they were never, ever, a threat. The only thing aircraft accomplished, was to annoy the hell out of me, and making a long game longer by having to creep along submerged all the time. Im sure you feel the same way in that regard.

What spawned my infamous "evil aircraft" was during one patrol, as i sat there at periscope depth, leaving the periscope up, watching the planes buzz overhead, and realizing that they were completey oblivious to my presence. Infact, they would always be oblivious, or a completely non factor to my survival since i had ample warning to dive before they ever saw me. I seriously thought after that, "well, schiiit, why don't i just remove them from the game? No matter what i adjust their spawn rates to, they serve no purpose but to annoy, they are a total non threat, so why the hell not outright remove them?!?" But it hit me that removing aircraft (in an important element of a sub sim) from the game is even lamer then they're current existance in SH4, there just had to be a better way, there just had to be a way to make them a threat again. When i experimented with using a negative surface factor on a visual sensor node and found i was being detected while submerged, i found my answer. At first i thought that maybe this was going overboard and too extreme, but then i realized that above listed reason number 1, gave me enough license, to go ahead with the idea, all i needed to do was fine tune it as best i could.

So whats up with the visual submerged detection on aircraft?

Aircraft in TMO use two special visual sensor nodes. One for singe engine fighters, the other for twin engine bombers. They are adusted based on how far left or right the aircraft sees (If i remember correctly, i have it adjusted so a fighter can't see whats directly behind it while a bomber can), and minimum surface factor on the sensor node itself. Fighters have a number that is shallower and closer to 0, bombers have a deeper number that is farther from 0. The scale on surface factor is normally 0 to whatever positive integer. I experimented with a negative number, which is how this was accomplished.

Visual detection by aircraft is NOT a sure thing. Things that most effect if your seen are:
1.) Fog. Light fog or better and you'll be amazed at what they won't see.
2.) Wind. Because wind translates to heavier , more choppy seas.
3.) Light. They don't see as well at night as they do during the day. Not that they spawn much at night to begin with.
4.) Aspect. If your bow/stern is pointed toward the direction of the aircraft, he doesn't have much to look at. If you have your broadsides to the aircraft, he has alot more to look at.
5.) Distance and depth to the aircraft. These two things relate to aspect in that the farther away and deeper in depth you are, the smaller the visible area of your submarine becomes.

A combination of all of the above, and visual detection is not a sure thing.


Yes, the AI radio's in your position.

It's all based on if your detected or not, and arguably gives you reason to avoid san pans, junks and the like. If your detected by an AI unit that belongs to japan, it will in effect, radio in your position, at which point, any nearby units in the area know your around, and an increase in air traffic will happen. A few examples:

A.) Lets say youve been tracking a convoy, and at a firing point, and are about to execute a daylight submerged attack, and have the misfortune of having a plane, purely by happenstance, enter the area. If he see's you, he will alert the nearby destroyers, who will in turn, start moving to your position at all possible speed.

Conversely, the opposite is true:

b.) You've torpedo'd a ship, the other ships in the convoy are alerted to you, you may see an airplane being vectered to the area if given enough time, and you will see an increase in air activity for awhile.


But i want a decrease in aircraft NOW dammit!

Ive adjusted the aircraft in 1.8 beta, so you should see less aircraft. Infact, as the war goes on, you should see even less aircraft. I have it so that as time goes on the crew level of the Jap airbases diminshes. Airbases with lesser crew ratings have a less chance to spawn then that of higher skilled airbases. At the beginning of the war, japan had its best pilots, towards the end they had far less experience as most of the veterans were lost for one reason or another.

If you want to apply that to 1.7, take the following two files out of TMO beta patch 1 ver 6. (all links here: http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1785 )

/data/cfg/airstrike.cfg
/data/campaigns/campaign/Jap_AirCover.mis

I haven't recieved any feedback for these adjustments yet, so im not sure as to how much of a reduction it will be over time. That said, even with those files, as before, if your detected, aircraft spawn rates will increase.

[Dgsbdy]

I think you did a good job with the aircraft in TM Overhaul. One thing I was wondering, does not wake length increase your chances of being spotted? I usually try to slow and minimize my wake and bow wave if it appears the planes are going to pass by.

I would be disappointed to hear that it did not have any effects on ships spotting you either. IRL that bow wave was highly visible at night. I even take the moon's position into account to keep from being sillouetted against it.

My only other pet peeve is that the aircraft do not fly in any semblance of reality, H6K's and Bettys doing power dives and pulling up into almost hammerheads. It would be so immersive to see a H6k come lumbering by at low level and not zipping thru the sky like a acrobatic Pitts. The only aircraft that should be coming down like that are the Vals. Oh and the planes sound like sewing machines

Some cruiser floatplanes would be nice too.

[MK2]

Thanks for the responses everybody.

Ducimus I am a new player (started playig last week) but a long time sim player and modder for flight sims , so I can appreciate an awesome mod and TMO is an awesome mod. I did play stock for a few days and then TMO 1.7 and it's just amazing.

So thank you for all the work.

The feedback I have concerning planes is that when you are assigned the task of taking pictures of a harbor or dropping off an agent, there might only be depths of less than 180 feet the entire way in, and it takes longer than one night to get out.
So day comes and you get spotted and plastered. It seems those missions are a bit suicidal when the planes can spot you at depths up to 175 feet.

Again an awesome mod and this is just a tiny bit of feedback.

[Ducimus]

assigned the task of taking pictures of a harbor or dropping off an agent, there might only be depths of less than 180 feet the entire way in, and it takes longer than one night to get out.

Any harbor in specific, or just generally speaking? My first thought is, if your just cruising in at standard speed to save fuel, maybe your going about it the wrong way. One thing i like, in sub sim's, is having to make a calculated decision.

So, my knee jerk response is, how much fuel do you have to spare? What i typically do on those missions, is get as close to the shore as i can, and lay doggo on the bottom when the depth gets to around 300 feet. Infact, ill move into this position at night, so i don't have to waste time on a battery charge when i surface the next night. So, i'll sound my way in to 300 feet of water, give or take. Then dive before first light, lay doggo, and come to periscope depth at sunset, doing a radar and periscope check before surfacing..

Surfacing at first dark, i'll put the boat into flank speed the whole way in, steering around surface craft as neccessary, and flank speed coming out for as long as i can. I don't expect to get completely out to deep water by sunrise, but far enough along to where i can complete the run to deep water submerged if neccessary.

[Rockin Robbins]

OK I finally got tired of bustin rocks, so I started my new career in TMO 1.8 beta. I got me a S-Boat with air search radar. I have to say this air search radar is nowhere as good as what I had in the old Kraken. Of course that was a tricked out late war Balao.

Some of the time, by the time my sub drops out of TC 1024, the plane is close enough that he sees me as I submerge. I haven't been in any danger. He pounds the water, but I've dialed in a turn on the way down and he misses. I'm in December 1941, touring out of Cavite, so I'm probably seeing pretty close to maximal air traffic. I've dodged about five planes in a cruise and a quarter so far. It seems very reasonable, although I'm nervous with this subpar radar (going back in time is hell!).

What I'm seeing is noticeably fewer aircraft than 1.7. But there are still enough to keep me on my toes. But then I was happy before. Heck, I was happy in stock because they weren't anything to worry about. I never reduced my TC below 8x to avoid, pop back up and resume 2048x cruise.

In 1.8 beta, if I cruise around at 2048x I'll be dead. 1024 is pushing it.

[MK2]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Ducimus, I'll look up those spots but I started a new career with the new beta 1.8 files (the two you mentioned) and so far it is perfect.

There have been planes dropping a few on me but not dozens like before.

So far so good.

[G2B]

I like the aircraft factor, makes you think about how to plot your patrols so your avoiding shallow areas during the day, If I crash dive now will I be a lawn dart? Even when rescuing downed pilots you can get aircraft comming in on you. Your right they are an annoyance but a good one. I just wish the cruisers could use their search planes or can they? I do often wonder about the search areas of some aircraft, they seem to be way out from any bases, almost like flight paths from one island to another.

Thanks Ducimus for all the thought and hard work

Is there a sound file for aircraft that can be changed so they don't sound like a sewing machine?

If your spotted by the AI, do they divert merchant shipping traffic to avoid you?