Man do they want me dead!

Commander Gizmo · 10-09-09, 02:56 PM

I had a theory of a way to hide from DD's that I thought might work out on the odd occasion and so preceded to look for a scenario to test it out. On my next convoy attack in 1941, I find 3 Black Swan and 1 Flower running for my IXB and I decided to give it a go.

With three war ships quickly closing on my position, I jump up to flank and get some speed going. I then manually operate the rudder to bring me in behind a large merchant I had hit earlier that was opposed to sinking, being careful not to wasted too much speed on rudder drag.

Once lined up, I set my depth for 165 meters and allow the drag on the planes to gradually slow me down as I slip under her. I then set turns for 5 knots, which is the approximate speed of the merchant. Ok, so just how will those DD's get me while I'm changing depth under a wounded ship?

At first they send in the Flower -- I guess it's training day -- and tell him to run across ahead of the merchant and drop a few depth charges. Naturally, they all miss seeing as how I am no where close to that position. After a few failed tries, the commander on the surface decides to bring in a fresh approach.

At this point, I am getting the hang of changing speed and course to stay just under the merchant as she zigs and zags, with liberal use of the external camera to confirm for this test. I want to know if the task is possible, not if I can maneuver by sound alone. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I am confident I am directly under the merchant and at 165 meters. Surely I am fairly safe, yes?

Well, it turns out those Brits are smarter than they look. They remembered to bring their latest invention: the K-Gun. The Swans then move forward and circle the weaving merchant while firing depth charges just ahead of the her. These, quite naturally, do not have time to sink to my depth and so my plan is still working -- for the moment.

After seeing the results of their efforts, the commander opts to take bdu's advice "Be More Aggressive!!". The swans now sweep in from alternate directions and nearly clip the merchant's bow. I give the captain of that ship credit, as he doesn't even flinch at the wheel or slow at all. The swans fire off more depth charges so that they nearly hit the side of the merchant. A few actually appear to slide in at an angle and go directly under the ship. Now they are on to something, but I am way to deep to get hit by those. On the other hand, the ship above me is getting covered with blast after blast of sea water which is now erupting on either side and from under the boat. (Perhaps if I was shallower, the depth charges would be set to sink the ship for me. But alas, I am not that brave today.)

After a few passes as described above, the swans finally get it right and sweep out farther ahead and drop and fire depth charges far enough ahead of the merchant to allow time for them to sink adequately. I now must come up considerably to avoid getting hit. So, they found a way after all.

Yes, I was cheating with the free camera. However, what's the point of such an experiment if I can't enjoy the show? And now you know to only hide under another ship if it is going slowly enough for silent running or you are facing a bunch of toothless Flower's.

I would have thought the noise from the merchant would have hid most of my own and the position under the merchant made finding my sonar signature rather difficult. Apparently not. There were a few times I thought the swans might finish each other or the merchant off with their reckless driving/firing too. They certainly can coordinate their movements!

Freiwillige · 10-09-09, 03:04 PM

Wow

Sonar can detect you under the ship but cant detect things at the surface.
Also I would think that the merchants motor noise would have drowned out your electric motor.

Here is an escape technique I use and is effective. Sonar works terrible near the surface and the worse the weather the worse sonar works. So in bad weather I just go silent and stay at periscope depth and never get detected even if they are a stones throw away. It takes Balls but it works in. I use GWX3.

Commander Gizmo · 10-09-09, 03:31 PM

I guess I should clarify. I was thinking that while drifting close to the ship (30-50 meters) that it should be hard to get a sonar hit on me.

popcorn2721 · 10-14-09, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Wow

Sonar can detect you under the ship but cant detect things at the surface.
Also I would think that the merchants motor noise would have drowned out your electric motor.

Here is an escape technique I use and is effective. Sonar works terrible near the surface and the worse the weather the worse sonar works. So in bad weather I just go silent and stay at periscope depth and never get detected even if they are a stones throw away. It takes Balls but it works in. I use GWX3.

I tried the whole hiding under a ship as its sinking thing... it didnt work for me either. I sank the HMS Nelson in the English Channel and had to give up because the DDs kept stacking up and DCing me. I could hide from the damage, near the wreckage of the Nelson, my crew was dying from CO2 buildup.
I agree with the bad weather attacks, the nastier it is... the less likely they are to pick you up. Let your fish fly, put the parascope down and cruse away slowly.

gordonmull · 10-14-09, 07:17 AM

The one small flaw i can see with this plan is that 5000T of sinking merchant ship falling on your head isn't going to brighten your day up any.

Jimbuna · 10-14-09, 07:40 AM

The sonar can detect you through land......now you know what your up against.

Lt.Fillipidis · 10-16-09, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordonmull

The one small flaw i can see with this plan is that 5000T of sinking merchant ship falling on your head isn't going to brighten your day up any.

Yes but if the ship is just damaged you can wait beneath it until the DDs are gone. I did this once with a nelson battleship. I still thank god that i hadnt had to rename my uboat from VIIc u-boat to VIIc sandwich filling.

By the way, is this technique realistic?
Are there any sandwitch fill- i mean uboats that hid under damaged ships?

Jimbuna · 10-16-09, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Fillipidis

Yes but if the ship is just damaged you can wait beneath it until the DDs are gone. I did this once with a nelson battleship. I still thank god that i hadnt had to rename my uboat from VIIc u-boat to VIIc sandwich filling.

By the way, is this technique realistic?
Are there any sandwitch fill- i mean uboats that hid under damaged ships?

Highly doubtful...they never had the benefit of externalcam/gods eye.

Commander Gizmo · 10-16-09, 07:00 PM

What about accidental occurrences? It still seems very doubtful even then, but does anyone know of such a case?

Lt.Fillipidis · 10-17-09, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Highly doubtful...they never had the benefit of externalcam/gods eye.

They didnt but they had the experience to judge if a ship is gonna sink or not.
Thats what Das Boot says.

10-09-09, 02:56 PM	#1
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	Man do they want me dead! I had a theory of a way to hide from DD's that I thought might work out on the odd occasion and so preceded to look for a scenario to test it out. On my next convoy attack in 1941, I find 3 Black Swan and 1 Flower running for my IXB and I decided to give it a go. With three war ships quickly closing on my position, I jump up to flank and get some speed going. I then manually operate the rudder to bring me in behind a large merchant I had hit earlier that was opposed to sinking, being careful not to wasted too much speed on rudder drag. Once lined up, I set my depth for 165 meters and allow the drag on the planes to gradually slow me down as I slip under her. I then set turns for 5 knots, which is the approximate speed of the merchant. Ok, so just how will those DD's get me while I'm changing depth under a wounded ship? At first they send in the Flower -- I guess it's training day -- and tell him to run across ahead of the merchant and drop a few depth charges. Naturally, they all miss seeing as how I am no where close to that position. After a few failed tries, the commander on the surface decides to bring in a fresh approach. At this point, I am getting the hang of changing speed and course to stay just under the merchant as she zigs and zags, with liberal use of the external camera to confirm for this test. I want to know if the task is possible, not if I can maneuver by sound alone. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I am confident I am directly under the merchant and at 165 meters. Surely I am fairly safe, yes? Well, it turns out those Brits are smarter than they look. They remembered to bring their latest invention: the K-Gun. The Swans then move forward and circle the weaving merchant while firing depth charges just ahead of the her. These, quite naturally, do not have time to sink to my depth and so my plan is still working -- for the moment. After seeing the results of their efforts, the commander opts to take bdu's advice "Be More Aggressive!!". The swans now sweep in from alternate directions and nearly clip the merchant's bow. I give the captain of that ship credit, as he doesn't even flinch at the wheel or slow at all. The swans fire off more depth charges so that they nearly hit the side of the merchant. A few actually appear to slide in at an angle and go directly under the ship. Now they are on to something, but I am way to deep to get hit by those. On the other hand, the ship above me is getting covered with blast after blast of sea water which is now erupting on either side and from under the boat. (Perhaps if I was shallower, the depth charges would be set to sink the ship for me. But alas, I am not that brave today.) After a few passes as described above, the swans finally get it right and sweep out farther ahead and drop and fire depth charges far enough ahead of the merchant to allow time for them to sink adequately. I now must come up considerably to avoid getting hit. So, they found a way after all. Yes, I was cheating with the free camera. However, what's the point of such an experiment if I can't enjoy the show? And now you know to only hide under another ship if it is going slowly enough for silent running or you are facing a bunch of toothless Flower's. I would have thought the noise from the merchant would have hid most of my own and the position under the merchant made finding my sonar signature rather difficult. Apparently not. There were a few times I thought the swans might finish each other or the merchant off with their reckless driving/firing too. They certainly can coordinate their movements!

10-14-09, 07:40 AM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The sonar can detect you through land......now you know what your up against. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

10-09-09, 03:04 PM	#2
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Wow Sonar can detect you under the ship but cant detect things at the surface. Also I would think that the merchants motor noise would have drowned out your electric motor. Here is an escape technique I use and is effective. Sonar works terrible near the surface and the worse the weather the worse sonar works. So in bad weather I just go silent and stay at periscope depth and never get detected even if they are a stones throw away. It takes Balls but it works in. I use GWX3.

10-09-09, 03:31 PM	#3
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	I guess I should clarify. I was thinking that while drifting close to the ship (30-50 meters) that it should be hard to get a sonar hit on me.

10-14-09, 07:17 AM	#5
gordonmull Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 267 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	The one small flaw i can see with this plan is that 5000T of sinking merchant ship falling on your head isn't going to brighten your day up any.

10-16-09, 07:00 PM	#9
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	What about accidental occurrences? It still seems very doubtful even then, but does anyone know of such a case?