The STARS of SH4: no really... big dipper

DigitalAura · 09-03-09, 12:59 PM

I've never paid much notice to the stars before in a game, but last night I noticed the appearance of the Big Dipper! I chuckled and thought, sheesh, that's rich. Then I noticed that all the stars of the cosmos were arrayed: The north star, Cassiopeia, and every silent 'hunter's favourite, Orion (the hunter).

I also noticed that the stars track across the sky in a convincing manner, which leads me to ask is this just more fabulous eye candy or are they actually navigable?

Kinda makes you wish there was a sextant tool in your bag of goodies, eh?

Inner Sound · 09-03-09, 01:12 PM

DA I've wondered about that too. Wondered if the makers have got the visuals built inside of one of those online star and planet packages. Wih the phases of the moon and risings of Venus and Mars all accurate to the game date. Would love to know.

Highbury · 09-03-09, 01:17 PM

The stars aren't navigable. Just a pretty sky texture that moves. The world is a Mercator Projection, not a true "spherical world" so it would not allow for astral navigation.

SteamWake · 09-03-09, 01:21 PM

Yes flat earth but they got the celestial sphere more or less correct.

Been discussed many times.

Inner Sound · 09-03-09, 01:26 PM

Quote:

The stars aren't navigable. Just a pretty sky texture that moves

Heehaw, I understood that bit !

Good to know tho - if surviving crew of USS Corkscrewer and I find ourselves adrift in a fauxrubber dinghy we'll know not to log in to SH4 for signposts !

Scurvy · 09-13-09, 09:55 AM

Lurking around and I found this thread and I gotta mention one thing.

My seven-year-old daughter was watching me play SHIV a few days ago. I happened to find the Big Dipper and use it to locate the North Star.

I showed her how to find Polaris, by following the outside of the "dipper".

Last night, I took my wife and daughter out for dinner and, after getting home just after dark, my daughter looked up in the night sky and said, "Hey, Daddy...I found the North Star" and pointed right to it.

Heh. Taught my child a real-world survival skill from a video game!!!

Pisces · 09-13-09, 01:02 PM

The stars or the earth are not the problem with celestial navigation in SH3 or 4. Sunrise and sunset are accurate to the time if you know at what coordinates you are. It's the measurement tools that fall short. Mods have been made to measure star and sun elevations above the horizon. Like what a sextant does. (very generally speaking) However they had nowhere near the accuracy or resolution as required to get your fix within a few minutes of arc. Also, there were some issues with the clock flipping timezones in odd locations and unstable behaviour with savegames. (but maybe that's just in SH3, I can't remember)

The 'best' solution sofar (imho) was by using an external planetarium program that displayed the heavens based on the players location in a savegame. But that requires getting out of the game, and obviously doesn't use the stars displayed in the game.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ght=Stellarium

vanjast · 09-17-09, 03:59 PM

Stars are navigatable, and have been since SH3, where some have claimed 100m accuracy.

A sextant is available albeit in the OBS Scope. This mod http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...?do=file&id=25 has it. This mod is based on scope/world angular accuracy in the stock game, so probably not compatible with the major mods, but should be compatible with Websters GFO mod. You can load this mod for a quick check, then unload to continue with your game - JSGME should ensure no problems.

The clock switching time is based on standard time zone clock setting at sea - read up on it. there seems to be a problem with loading saved games, but I've never come across this problem.
It might have something to to with the game engine since SH3 days, so it's an idea to follow the saving game guidelines, which I think is in the stickies.

I had intentions of persueing the RealNav mod further but Real Life had made it difficult. Some others have made additions/mods which you might find usefull, but the workable basics/ground work has been laid by all those involved.

09-03-09, 12:59 PM	#1
DigitalAura Straight and True Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CANADA Posts: 276 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The STARS of SH4: no really... big dipper I've never paid much notice to the stars before in a game, but last night I noticed the appearance of the Big Dipper! I chuckled and thought, sheesh, that's rich. Then I noticed that all the stars of the cosmos were arrayed: The north star, Cassiopeia, and every silent 'hunter's favourite, Orion (the hunter). I also noticed that the stars track across the sky in a convincing manner, which leads me to ask is this just more fabulous eye candy or are they actually navigable? Kinda makes you wish there was a sextant tool in your bag of goodies, eh? __________________ ... ALL YOUR BEACH ARE BELONG TO US! ...

09-03-09, 01:21 PM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Yes flat earth but they got the celestial sphere more or less correct. Been discussed many times. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

09-13-09, 01:02 PM	#7
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	The stars or the earth are not the problem with celestial navigation in SH3 or 4. Sunrise and sunset are accurate to the time if you know at what coordinates you are. It's the measurement tools that fall short. Mods have been made to measure star and sun elevations above the horizon. Like what a sextant does. (very generally speaking) However they had nowhere near the accuracy or resolution as required to get your fix within a few minutes of arc. Also, there were some issues with the clock flipping timezones in odd locations and unstable behaviour with savegames. (but maybe that's just in SH3, I can't remember) The 'best' solution sofar (imho) was by using an external planetarium program that displayed the heavens based on the players location in a savegame. But that requires getting out of the game, and obviously doesn't use the stars displayed in the game. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ght=Stellarium __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

09-03-09, 01:12 PM	#2
Inner Sound Sparky Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 152 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	DA I've wondered about that too. Wondered if the makers have got the visuals built inside of one of those online star and planet packages. Wih the phases of the moon and risings of Venus and Mars all accurate to the game date. Would love to know.

09-03-09, 01:17 PM	#3
Highbury The Old Man Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: 51.557, -0.102 Posts: 1,311 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	The stars aren't navigable. Just a pretty sky texture that moves. The world is a Mercator Projection, not a true "spherical world" so it would not allow for astral navigation.

09-13-09, 09:55 AM	#6
Scurvy Bosun Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 67 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Lurking around and I found this thread and I gotta mention one thing. My seven-year-old daughter was watching me play SHIV a few days ago. I happened to find the Big Dipper and use it to locate the North Star. I showed her how to find Polaris, by following the outside of the "dipper". Last night, I took my wife and daughter out for dinner and, after getting home just after dark, my daughter looked up in the night sky and said, "Hey, Daddy...I found the North Star" and pointed right to it. Heh. Taught my child a real-world survival skill from a video game!!!

09-17-09, 03:59 PM	#8
vanjast Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Somewhere else now Posts: 1,733 Downloads: 825 Uploads: 4	Stars are navigatable, and have been since SH3, where some have claimed 100m accuracy. A sextant is available albeit in the OBS Scope. This mod http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...?do=file&id=25 has it. This mod is based on scope/world angular accuracy in the stock game, so probably not compatible with the major mods, but should be compatible with Websters GFO mod. You can load this mod for a quick check, then unload to continue with your game - JSGME should ensure no problems. The clock switching time is based on standard time zone clock setting at sea - read up on it. there seems to be a problem with loading saved games, but I've never come across this problem. It might have something to to with the game engine since SH3 days, so it's an idea to follow the saving game guidelines, which I think is in the stickies. I had intentions of persueing the RealNav mod further but Real Life had made it difficult. Some others have made additions/mods which you might find usefull, but the workable basics/ground work has been laid by all those involved.