I suggest this with each release of SH...Persistent Online Campaign!

nattydread · 08-28-09, 05:01 PM

It can be a UBisoft server, or it can be player hosted campaign servers...i dont really care.

The idea is that the server runs 24/7. It creates dynamic convoys and patrols over the course of a campaign(maybe 3 months). Players log in progress through the campaign just like the single player campaign...but not you have the opportunity to run into other players at sea.

Wrinkles to iron out: Maintaining flexibility of time so players can use time compression as need.

I propose that time be accelerated on a sector by sector basis. That time compression be set to the lowest time multiple of any person within the sector. That convoys, patrols and task forces be stratigically placed/spawned in sectors of ocean in relative close proximity to where players are activly patroling(that doesnt mean you'll have convoys dropped in your lap, you will still need to patrol and cover lots of ocean to find, stumble or be vectored to contacts). All spawned convoys, task forces, patrols will be spawned outside of sensory range of any player in the sector(to prevent "drop-ins" of visible or auditory/sonar or radar contacts out of no where).

Time compression will cause some anamolies in day/night cycles and plotting. I suggest that all time be server based and all plottings and time marks be elapsed time...so if you compress time for 18hrs elapsed, but only 3hrs of game time passed, Your clocks will show onlt 3hrs passing, and the day/night cycle will show only 3hrs passing, but your timers will still show the 18hrs passed...mainly for accurate plotting of targets and such.

I can also see time compression not being a sector thing, but a sensory range to player thing, where you can time compress all you want, until in sensory range of a player or AI unit that is in sensory range of a player. Once in this range, the fast time compression allowed is the lowest time compression of any player in sensory range of another player, or AI unit within sensory range of another unit.

nattydread · 08-28-09, 06:47 PM

I'd like to see the campaign progress through just like the single player campaign. The equipment made avilable to you is only that equipment available during the period the campaign is currently in.

I'd like to see a running stat page with stats for:
* Time in game
* Time on patrol
* Tonnage
* Accuracy
* Kill/Death ratios

I'd like to see comms modeled...complete with HF/DF penalties as an option.

Fully dynamic AI campaign Enigma reports and sub vectoring.

The cool thing is that you can be as wolf packages or as lone wolf as you generally want to be...though you likly run into others on occasion.

I'd like there to be an observer mode, where you can watch other players at sea from either crew stations or free mode camera controls.

donut · 08-28-09, 07:00 PM

Hope to understand on-line player/game interaction, many don't concieve.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155526

difool2 · 08-29-09, 07:50 AM

I've thought a lot about how to make something like this workable. I think the arena would definitely need to be made with a smaller scale (like 1/4th linear, as in the distance between Newfoundland and England being 1000 km, not 4000). Time compression is very problematic; you instead may need to have a team/crew associated with each boat so that at least one person is logged onto the sub at any one time. At 18 knots (requiring a fuel usage kludge), it would take you about a day real-time to reach the center of the Atlantic, which isn't too bad. Ubi would need the Channel/North Sea to appeal to the "action first" types who can dive right in (pun intended) with Type II's, Schnellboots, various British ships, and yes even aircraft.

nattydread · 08-29-09, 12:28 PM

Im not so sure it has to be scaled down. Time compression allows for significant travel in a short period of time. I dont thin multiplayer as to cater to the "action now" group, because multiplayer would be meant to add a more social/interactive suppott to the single player campaign experience. Meaning, if you dont like single player, you likly wont like multiplayer.

Multiplayer isnt meant to change the feel of the game. Its not meant to provide the typical frag-fest experience, but only offer the ability to truly wolf-pack within the already well established single-player experience.

In my vision, the game should generally feel as isolated as it does in single player, until you run into or coordinate group action.

Time compression is the key feature that is required to give players the freedom to engage targets in a timely manner. My initial time compression plan was to force on a players within sector, sensory or proximity to only time compress to the lowest setting of any player in the sector, sensor or proximity range. I still think that will work, but I think its acceptable to create a sort of "warp" option, that allows you to travel to a patrol area quickly without fear of being hampered in travel time due to inadvertant run ins with other players.

I think one should be able to time compress for long travel distance, but click an option called "reposition" that will ignore units while traveling inbound to the destination waypoint. So I could sort of "warp" there, but not really, at high compression like we canin game now, and then only be hampered by player encounters within the sector, sensor or proximity of the destination waypoint.

In addition, while "repositioning", my sub will not transmit sensory return(visual, radar, sonar) to other players for whom Im passing by within sensory range. That way players wont get weird sensory anamolies as other players zip through at "warp" speeds during their "repositioning".

Lastly, when th eplayer is outside sensory range of other players, "repositioning" would not ignore contacts like air units or lone warships(hunter killer groups, single DDs) that are not within sensory range of players. Such run ins against ant-sub threats are critical experiences during one's patrol and there shouldnt be a way to exploit the "repositioning" to by-pass these threats while transiting. However, task forces, convoys, lone merchants would remain ignored until arriving within proximity to your destination. Once out of "resposition" mode, everything works like normal.

Armistead · 08-29-09, 01:00 PM

I don't have to read the TC article, cuz I've yet to see a game like this that isn't scaled down to real time play.

The other problem with online that would have to be resolved is online cheating. It eventually ruins almost every online game. Better to just host and play with those you know.

maerean_m · 08-31-09, 02:46 PM

nattydread, you may get your wish

SteamWake · 08-31-09, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maerean_m

nattydread, you may get your wish

JU_88 · 08-31-09, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maerean_m

nattydread, you may get your wish

Wow impressive!

nattydread · 08-31-09, 10:09 PM

You guys are serious? C'mon, dont be playing with my emotions.

karamazovnew · 08-31-09, 02:53 PM

OMFG I've posted the previous post on the wrong thread

. I must be sleepy

. Please ignore what I said before, it is idiotic in the context of this thread, especially considering the "cheating" part.

Nexus7 · 09-01-09, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maerean_m

nattydread, you may get your wish

If this was true, I'd consider this an ENORMOUS STEP FORWARD, a BREAKTROUGH , not only in the SH series, but in multiplay generally !!!!!!!!!! Making SH a Milestone in the gaming evolution !!!!! I expected this to arrive, but not so soon !!!

I am going to wait for some official announcement before putting my pre-order 6 month before release !

Nexus7 · 09-01-09, 03:45 AM

My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others.

At a later development my dream is to have a sub simulator interfaced with a political simulator, with a number of virtual nations in play. The sub simulator being just a portion of the whole... Flight simulators, Infantry simulators and so on, would be part of the whole as well.

The political simulator would be the trigger for campaigns / battles

If SH5 takes even a single one of those aspects into account, it would be simply fantastic

nattydread · 09-01-09, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7

My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others.

At a later development my dream is to have a sub simulator interfaced with a political simulator, with a number of virtual nations in play. The sub simulator being just a portion of the whole... Flight simulators, Infantry simulators and so on, would be part of the whole as well.

The political simulator would be the trigger for campaigns / battles

If SH5 takes even a single one of those aspects into account, it would be simply fantastic

WWIIOnline is sort of like that...minus the political stuff

its essentially a flight, infantry, tank/vehicle and a very limited naval simulator of a nice chunk of Europe at 1/2 scale.

Its amazing to see a true combined arms massivly multiplayer simulator...I love it, been on it 8yrs now.

difool2 · 09-01-09, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7

My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others.

In my conception each boat is crewed by a team, with a command hierarchy-top ranked officer who is logged on controls the sub. With the proper permissions other people could be allowed to helm her; naturally you may multicrew the boat at the appropriate times (like during a battle, natch). There would be a lot more involved but that's a start.

08-28-09, 05:01 PM	#1
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I suggest this with each release of SH...Persistent Online Campaign! It can be a UBisoft server, or it can be player hosted campaign servers...i dont really care. The idea is that the server runs 24/7. It creates dynamic convoys and patrols over the course of a campaign(maybe 3 months). Players log in progress through the campaign just like the single player campaign...but not you have the opportunity to run into other players at sea. Wrinkles to iron out: Maintaining flexibility of time so players can use time compression as need. I propose that time be accelerated on a sector by sector basis. That time compression be set to the lowest time multiple of any person within the sector. That convoys, patrols and task forces be stratigically placed/spawned in sectors of ocean in relative close proximity to where players are activly patroling(that doesnt mean you'll have convoys dropped in your lap, you will still need to patrol and cover lots of ocean to find, stumble or be vectored to contacts). All spawned convoys, task forces, patrols will be spawned outside of sensory range of any player in the sector(to prevent "drop-ins" of visible or auditory/sonar or radar contacts out of no where). Time compression will cause some anamolies in day/night cycles and plotting. I suggest that all time be server based and all plottings and time marks be elapsed time...so if you compress time for 18hrs elapsed, but only 3hrs of game time passed, Your clocks will show onlt 3hrs passing, and the day/night cycle will show only 3hrs passing, but your timers will still show the 18hrs passed...mainly for accurate plotting of targets and such. I can also see time compression not being a sector thing, but a sensory range to player thing, where you can time compress all you want, until in sensory range of a player or AI unit that is in sensory range of a player. Once in this range, the fast time compression allowed is the lowest time compression of any player in sensory range of another player, or AI unit within sensory range of another unit. Last edited by nattydread; 08-28-09 at 06:40 PM.

08-28-09, 06:47 PM	#2
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I'd like to see the campaign progress through just like the single player campaign. The equipment made avilable to you is only that equipment available during the period the campaign is currently in. I'd like to see a running stat page with stats for: * Time in game * Time on patrol * Tonnage * Accuracy * Kill/Death ratios I'd like to see comms modeled...complete with HF/DF penalties as an option. Fully dynamic AI campaign Enigma reports and sub vectoring. The cool thing is that you can be as wolf packages or as lone wolf as you generally want to be...though you likly run into others on occasion. I'd like there to be an observer mode, where you can watch other players at sea from either crew stations or free mode camera controls. Last edited by nattydread; 08-28-09 at 07:34 PM.

08-28-09, 07:00 PM	#3
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I plooped your idea into another thread. Hope to understand on-line player/game interaction, many don't concieve. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155526

08-31-09, 02:46 PM	#7
maerean_m Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 529 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	nattydread, you may get your wish __________________ Kilroy was here

09-01-09, 03:45 AM	#13
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others. At a later development my dream is to have a sub simulator interfaced with a political simulator, with a number of virtual nations in play. The sub simulator being just a portion of the whole... Flight simulators, Infantry simulators and so on, would be part of the whole as well. The political simulator would be the trigger for campaigns / battles If SH5 takes even a single one of those aspects into account, it would be simply fantastic __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

08-29-09, 07:50 AM	#4
difool2 Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I've thought a lot about how to make something like this workable. I think the arena would definitely need to be made with a smaller scale (like 1/4th linear, as in the distance between Newfoundland and England being 1000 km, not 4000). Time compression is very problematic; you instead may need to have a team/crew associated with each boat so that at least one person is logged onto the sub at any one time. At 18 knots (requiring a fuel usage kludge), it would take you about a day real-time to reach the center of the Atlantic, which isn't too bad. Ubi would need the Channel/North Sea to appeal to the "action first" types who can dive right in (pun intended) with Type II's, Schnellboots, various British ships, and yes even aircraft.

08-29-09, 12:28 PM	#5
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Im not so sure it has to be scaled down. Time compression allows for significant travel in a short period of time. I dont thin multiplayer as to cater to the "action now" group, because multiplayer would be meant to add a more social/interactive suppott to the single player campaign experience. Meaning, if you dont like single player, you likly wont like multiplayer. Multiplayer isnt meant to change the feel of the game. Its not meant to provide the typical frag-fest experience, but only offer the ability to truly wolf-pack within the already well established single-player experience. In my vision, the game should generally feel as isolated as it does in single player, until you run into or coordinate group action. Time compression is the key feature that is required to give players the freedom to engage targets in a timely manner. My initial time compression plan was to force on a players within sector, sensory or proximity to only time compress to the lowest setting of any player in the sector, sensor or proximity range. I still think that will work, but I think its acceptable to create a sort of "warp" option, that allows you to travel to a patrol area quickly without fear of being hampered in travel time due to inadvertant run ins with other players. I think one should be able to time compress for long travel distance, but click an option called "reposition" that will ignore units while traveling inbound to the destination waypoint. So I could sort of "warp" there, but not really, at high compression like we canin game now, and then only be hampered by player encounters within the sector, sensor or proximity of the destination waypoint. In addition, while "repositioning", my sub will not transmit sensory return(visual, radar, sonar) to other players for whom Im passing by within sensory range. That way players wont get weird sensory anamolies as other players zip through at "warp" speeds during their "repositioning". Lastly, when th eplayer is outside sensory range of other players, "repositioning" would not ignore contacts like air units or lone warships(hunter killer groups, single DDs) that are not within sensory range of players. Such run ins against ant-sub threats are critical experiences during one's patrol and there shouldnt be a way to exploit the "repositioning" to by-pass these threats while transiting. However, task forces, convoys, lone merchants would remain ignored until arriving within proximity to your destination. Once out of "resposition" mode, everything works like normal.

08-29-09, 01:00 PM	#6
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I don't have to read the TC article, cuz I've yet to see a game like this that isn't scaled down to real time play. The other problem with online that would have to be resolved is online cheating. It eventually ruins almost every online game. Better to just host and play with those you know.

08-31-09, 10:09 PM	#10
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	You guys are serious? C'mon, dont be playing with my emotions.

08-31-09, 02:53 PM	#11
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	OMFG I've posted the previous post on the wrong thread . I must be sleepy . Please ignore what I said before, it is idiotic in the context of this thread, especially considering the "cheating" part.