I tire of this!!!

pythos · 06-29-09, 03:59 PM

How the hell can a ship 5000meters away see my boat when it is running awash, in night time conditions, with rough seas, and no moon?

This is another problem I have with SH4 after reading that Donitz, got less than 500 meters from his targets, on the surface, at night, in still waters, and never get sighted.

What parameter controls the AI's night visual capabilities?

Submarines are low in the water, and small, they should be near impossible to see at night in rough seas, yet the merchants are spotting my boat 5000 meters out, when I am near bow on, proceeding at 2/3rds ahead.

This is ruining the game for me.

These are the mods I have.
RFB_v1.52_102408
RFB_v1.52_Patch_18Jan09
RFB_v1.52_RadarHotfix
RSRDC_RFBv15_V420
RSRDC_V420_Patch2
RFB_German Audio Files
DBSM_SH4
OpsMonsun_V705
Csengoi's EnemiesOfGermany
OMv705_Patch1

Stormende · 06-29-09, 04:03 PM

Stock or modded?

I have played RFB and the sighting is quite decent, TMO has super watchers for what I have tested.

Red Devil · 07-01-09, 07:00 PM

I was stationary, p depth, upped scope and a destroyer found me in a squall!!! Why are we so addicted to a sim thats infested with bugs? Answers on the back of a $99 note to the webmaster!

Buddahaid · 07-01-09, 07:38 PM

Because perfecting a simulation of reality is near impossible, and would need a massive investment, so we spend a few dollars on the next best thing.

Buddahaid

Stealhead · 07-01-09, 07:47 PM

If you cant take the games quirks then dont play it is that simple.

SteamWake · 07-01-09, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Devil

I was stationary, p depth, upped scope and a destroyer found me in a squall!!! Why are we so addicted to a sim thats infested with bugs? Answers on the back of a $99 note to the webmaster!

What the hell does that mean?

You got spotted, deal with it. Its a freakin game.

Oh btw and stationary at periscope depth... yea thats realistic.

Stealhead · 07-01-09, 08:39 PM

I say things not going to plan makes the game more fun. Things dont always go to plan in a real submarine but the skipper does not cry about getting spotted he adapts and keeps fighting.You can never be sure how far you will be seen given certain condtions sometimes the guy that eats carrots all day and has orange skin from it is on watch.And you are reading from a book you cant be sure that things have not been embelished a bit.

captgeo · 07-01-09, 08:59 PM

I can understand the whole point of being a bit upset about being seen in these conditions, I myself thought the same thing about being spotted under almost the same, but I understand that when parameters are set, they are hard to change for every situation, In fact I think it would be asking for too much. I feel the same way about having a camo on a boat, and still being seen at the same distance's.

pythos · 07-01-09, 09:45 PM

Common modders. How can we tweek the AI's night vision.

and for those that said we shouldn't play if we can't put up with the bugs. Your support is not needed. Go away with such nonsense.

I for one want to contribute to this game being the best. Ships able to see a sub, bows on in a storm at 5 km, is not realistic.

Stealhead · 07-01-09, 10:08 PM

Wait a minute now which is it 5,000 meters as in your 1st post or 5km as in your last that is a huge diffrence.5,000 meters is not that far what 3000 some odd yards not that far unless it is 100% pitch dark then I say yes it is possiable that an alert lookout could see you even in a storm or is it just rough seas? yor story is changing each time.

I have never seen a ship spot me at 5km but in the most clear condtions in daylight or a very high moon.
I think the modders have got the AI vision down to as good a level as it will get anyway.
And no matter what you will have bugs with a PC game no matter what it is written in the PC bible.

It just seems here lately that you are complaing about everything that most people take in stride I mean you posted about the damage model in RFB and also you complained about the way the game reports enemy postions and those 2 where not even bugs or probelms at all. Would you like some cheese with that wine?
I agree there are things that would be nice like what captgeo said but most things gameplay wise that have not been modded by now are hard coded and cant be changed.
I am not trying to say that you arent good at the game hell I myself dont play at the hardcore level either but it just seems that your complaits are down to how you are playing the not bugs with the game.

Buddahaid · 07-01-09, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Common modders. How can we tweek the AI's night vision.

and for those that said we shouldn't play if we can't put up with the bugs. Your support is not needed. Go away with such nonsense.

I for one want to contribute to this game being the best. Ships able to see a sub, bows on in a storm at 5 km, is not realistic.

And for those, who from there acme of perfection, call any aspect of a game not modeled to their liking a bug, and speak to the lowly masses "I tire of this", use your god like powers to fix it yourself, or learn to ask for help in a constructive manner. It works better here, and everywhere else. This thread is closed for me.

Buddahaid

Armistead · 07-02-09, 12:04 AM

Part of the problem is the AI is somewhat connected surfaced and submerged.

That is one of the flaws of this game, not being able to pull off surfaced night attacks. I've tried in every possible situation and closest I could get was 2500 yards before being attacked.

Still, this remains the best sub game ever made, a few bugs doesn't ruin it for me.

dcb · 07-02-09, 12:12 AM

Slightly off topic:
I can't understand those who voice arguments like "If you don't like it, don't play it." Based on this kind of judgement, we would still play the game in its vanilla version, no mods included, because... everybody who didn't like some aspect of the game would leave it and go play The Sims, rather than start modding it

On topic now:
Yes, I can understand pythos' problem, because I experienced it myself. OM escort visual sensors are pretty uber and never allow in game to use the RL uboat tactics (early in war) of closing to the convoy on surface, during dark nights, without being detected.

A quick (and possibly dirty, still under testing) fix I found:
in the sim.cfg file, the - Sensitivity - parameter under the [Visual] group of values controls surface detection by enemy. Based on testing, on a calm day, 11:00 hours AM, wind 5 km/h, here are the values I obtained:

Sensitivity=0,2 results in detection at 2500 meters
= 0.15 at 4200
= 0.1 at 6000

I personally use 0.15 - looks most realistic to me.

This is a starting point for anyone wishing to tweak visual detection himself.

Now, if we speak about AI detection (OM 705), I also noticed the AI hydrophone to be pretty useless. Test scenario: my sub at 20 meters depth, going flank speed. Above me, two destroyers set to elite. Year 1941. I am able to evade them at flank speed every time, they never can hear me, even though I make a hell of a noise.

XTBilly · 07-02-09, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Common modders. How can we tweek the AI's night vision.

and for those that said we shouldn't play if we can't put up with the bugs. Your support is not needed. Go away with such nonsense.

I for one want to contribute to this game being the best. Ships able to see a sub, bows on in a storm at 5 km, is not realistic.

What are you talking about? Have you heard the word "radar"?
What year are you playing? Allied escorts had radar far before the Japanese did...

You are posting continously about game and mod flaws that are not realistic for you. Everyone has his thoughts about how a computer simulates real warfare.

Been rude also doesn't do much good.

From what I see, you're expecting the modders here to produce special "Pythos" versions for you to be happy.
God, i'd love having a crack team of modders to mod the game the way "I" feel it's realistic.

johntarmac · 07-02-09, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Wait a minute now which is it 5,000 meters as in your 1st post or 5km as in your last that is a huge diffrence.

I may be having a senior moment here and I had very little sleep last night so I had to think about this for a minute or two but there are 1,000 meters in a kilometer.
Therefore 5,000m does = 5km.

Cheers

06-29-09, 03:59 PM	#1
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	I tire of this!!! How the hell can a ship 5000meters away see my boat when it is running awash, in night time conditions, with rough seas, and no moon? This is another problem I have with SH4 after reading that Donitz, got less than 500 meters from his targets, on the surface, at night, in still waters, and never get sighted. What parameter controls the AI's night visual capabilities? Submarines are low in the water, and small, they should be near impossible to see at night in rough seas, yet the merchants are spotting my boat 5000 meters out, when I am near bow on, proceeding at 2/3rds ahead. This is ruining the game for me. These are the mods I have. RFB_v1.52_102408 RFB_v1.52_Patch_18Jan09 RFB_v1.52_RadarHotfix RSRDC_RFBv15_V420 RSRDC_V420_Patch2 RFB_German Audio Files DBSM_SH4 OpsMonsun_V705 Csengoi's EnemiesOfGermany OMv705_Patch1 Last edited by pythos; 06-29-09 at 04:41 PM.

06-29-09, 04:03 PM	#2
Stormende Soundman Join Date: May 2009 Location: México, DF. Posts: 146 Downloads: 716 Uploads: 1	¿? Stock or modded? I have played RFB and the sighting is quite decent, TMO has super watchers for what I have tested.

07-01-09, 07:00 PM	#3
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,515 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	I was stationary, p depth, upped scope and a destroyer found me in a squall!!! Why are we so addicted to a sim thats infested with bugs? Answers on the back of a $99 note to the webmaster! __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

07-01-09, 08:59 PM	#8
captgeo Samurai Navy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ontario,Canada Posts: 550 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	I can understand the whole point of being a bit upset about being seen in these conditions, I myself thought the same thing about being spotted under almost the same, but I understand that when parameters are set, they are hard to change for every situation, In fact I think it would be asking for too much. I feel the same way about having a camo on a boat, and still being seen at the same distance's. __________________

07-01-09, 10:08 PM	#10
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Wait a minute now which is it 5,000 meters as in your 1st post or 5km as in your last that is a huge diffrence.5,000 meters is not that far what 3000 some odd yards not that far unless it is 100% pitch dark then I say yes it is possiable that an alert lookout could see you even in a storm or is it just rough seas? yor story is changing each time. I have never seen a ship spot me at 5km but in the most clear condtions in daylight or a very high moon. I think the modders have got the AI vision down to as good a level as it will get anyway. And no matter what you will have bugs with a PC game no matter what it is written in the PC bible. It just seems here lately that you are complaing about everything that most people take in stride I mean you posted about the damage model in RFB and also you complained about the way the game reports enemy postions and those 2 where not even bugs or probelms at all. Would you like some cheese with that wine? I agree there are things that would be nice like what captgeo said but most things gameplay wise that have not been modded by now are hard coded and cant be changed. I am not trying to say that you arent good at the game hell I myself dont play at the hardcore level either but it just seems that your complaits are down to how you are playing the not bugs with the game. Last edited by Stealhead; 07-01-09 at 10:24 PM.

07-01-09, 07:38 PM	#4
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,557 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Because perfecting a simulation of reality is near impossible, and would need a massive investment, so we spend a few dollars on the next best thing. Buddahaid

07-01-09, 07:47 PM	#5
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	If you cant take the games quirks then dont play it is that simple.

07-01-09, 08:39 PM	#7
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I say things not going to plan makes the game more fun. Things dont always go to plan in a real submarine but the skipper does not cry about getting spotted he adapts and keeps fighting.You can never be sure how far you will be seen given certain condtions sometimes the guy that eats carrots all day and has orange skin from it is on watch.And you are reading from a book you cant be sure that things have not been embelished a bit.

07-01-09, 09:45 PM	#9
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Common modders. How can we tweek the AI's night vision. and for those that said we shouldn't play if we can't put up with the bugs. Your support is not needed. Go away with such nonsense. I for one want to contribute to this game being the best. Ships able to see a sub, bows on in a storm at 5 km, is not realistic.

07-02-09, 12:04 AM	#12
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Part of the problem is the AI is somewhat connected surfaced and submerged. That is one of the flaws of this game, not being able to pull off surfaced night attacks. I've tried in every possible situation and closest I could get was 2500 yards before being attacked. Still, this remains the best sub game ever made, a few bugs doesn't ruin it for me. Last edited by Armistead; 07-02-09 at 12:48 PM.

07-02-09, 12:12 AM	#13
dcb Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 845 Downloads: 544 Uploads: 0	Slightly off topic: I can't understand those who voice arguments like "If you don't like it, don't play it." Based on this kind of judgement, we would still play the game in its vanilla version, no mods included, because... everybody who didn't like some aspect of the game would leave it and go play The Sims, rather than start modding it On topic now: Yes, I can understand pythos' problem, because I experienced it myself. OM escort visual sensors are pretty uber and never allow in game to use the RL uboat tactics (early in war) of closing to the convoy on surface, during dark nights, without being detected. A quick (and possibly dirty, still under testing) fix I found: in the sim.cfg file, the - Sensitivity - parameter under the [Visual] group of values controls surface detection by enemy. Based on testing, on a calm day, 11:00 hours AM, wind 5 km/h, here are the values I obtained: Sensitivity=0,2 results in detection at 2500 meters = 0.15 at 4200 = 0.1 at 6000 I personally use 0.15 - looks most realistic to me. This is a starting point for anyone wishing to tweak visual detection himself. Now, if we speak about AI detection (OM 705), I also noticed the AI hydrophone to be pretty useless. Test scenario: my sub at 20 meters depth, going flank speed. Above me, two destroyers set to elite. Year 1941. I am able to evade them at flank speed every time, they never can hear me, even though I make a hell of a noise.