Scavenger hunt in Moldova 1944 -2009

[Dan D]

Here is the case of my grandfather whose war grave I have tried to find in Moldova:

I think I found it.
Feel free to point out the flaws of my argument.

-“Dog tag”: soldier 20.591th of the paramedic’s detachment 6,
-troop unit/function: medical NCO of the 5th company, Grenadier-Regiment 212, 79th infantry division,
-date of death according to the Wehrmacht records: 05.04.1944,
-location of death: Agronomovka/Moldova,
-grave site according to the Wehrmacht records: Parliti Targ, at the old market square.

Situation in Pyrlitsa: no grave site can be located above-ground; the grave digger who is working for the war graves commission tried to find the place for 4 years; the way he sees it now, the graves site is most likely underneath the football-ground of the local football club, 1. FC Pyrlitsa or whatever it is called; located downtown, big enough to be the old market square, people are very religious here and very likely don’t like to build houses on ground which rumours say, contains remains of many dead, but a football-ground will do; could be an explanation why this central area in the town is not overbuilt. Grave digger is waiting for that one of the locals confirms that the football-ground is the old market place.

Situation in Agronomovka: Nine dead grandpas were exhumed in 2007. An old lady could remember the day when the Germans buried some of their soldiers in the village; at the end of the village there once was a junction where the road turned to the left and to the right. The road that turned to the right no longer exists, it used to lead to Khristoforovka; there is a huge rapeseed field of the local collective farm today instead. The grave digger started digging along the fictitious road axis and located the grave within one day which impressed his Moldovanian co-workers a lot.
8 of the 9 dead could be identified because of their dog tags. The 9th did not carry one.

All 9 soldiers are already buried on the Central Military Cemetery in Chisinau, the capital of Moldova, the 9th soldier as “unknown soldier”.


I have made up my mind that the 9th soldier most likely is my grandfather, and have talked my father into sharing my point of view, because of the following reasons:

First off all, there is information that the grave site is not the lost Wehrmacht’s official cemetery in Pyrlitsa but is located in Agronomovka. There is a personal letter written by a soldier, who knew my grandfather in person, which tells that they found my grandfather in Agronomovka more then 6 weeks after he went missing when they recaptured the village and that they buried him amongst other soldiers of his unit in Agronomovka.
According to the letter they buried him at the end of the village at the crossroad on the right side at the road leading to Khristoforovka. This describes exactly the location of the grave site that the grave digger had found in 2007 with the help of the old locals.

Second, all the 8 identified soldiers were members of my grandfathers unit.

Third, the 9th dead was about 30-40 years old, and his size 176 cm. My grandfather was already that “old” compared to the average age of an infantry soldier, that is to say, he was 30 years old, and the size fits, too; 174 cm when he was 19 years old.

Fourth, there was no time to rebury my grandfather from Agronomovka to the official cemetery in Pyrlitsa, even if this was planned because only 1 month after the date the letter was written the Red Army grandpas launched a massive offensive which caused the whole German Southern grandpas front to collapse.

My grandfather was already dead for 6 weeks when he was found plus he we were hit by a tank shell. These are good reasons to bury him on the spot, could be an explanation why he was no longer wearing his dog tag too.

The official Wehrmacht cemetery was in Pyrlitsa. A cemetery in Agronomovka does not exist in the official records. This could explain why some guy noted down Parliti-Targ as the grave site, but the letter says something else.

In know have applied for a certificate of death for the 9th dead with my grandpas name and will have to wait and see if the authorities accept my argument.

Block: 9, row: 12, grave: 459 , name: unknown, German Soldier’s cemetery in Chisinau, Moldova.

Case closed.

Here is the “I was there” picture:

As one can see, according to the terrain, you are either the king of the hill or a dead duck in the plain with no cover to hide from tanks until you have climbed the next hill.

[UnderseaLcpl]

That all sounds reasonable to me. Nice detective work

My respects to your grandfather

A question, is there a way of locating bones underground using a kind of 'landsonar', the kind that I remember seeing in the movie Jurassic Park so I'm not sure if it's true or not. I'd imagine it's difficult work finding just a few graves in a vast place such as the former USSR.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

A question, is there a way of locating bones underground using a kind of 'landsonar', the kind that I remember seeing in the movie Jurassic Park so I'm not sure if it's true or not. I'd imagine it's difficult work finding just a few graves in a vast place such as the former USSR.

There is a way to map subterranian features using sound waves, I know that for sure. Petroleum and mining companies use it all the time. Whether or not bones can be located in such a fashion I do not know, but it seems likely given the unique porousness (and hardness) of bone. I have no idea whether or not the Jurassic park example hols water. I would assume that fossils would be much denser (and therefore, would be detectable) than the surrounding earth, but I'm no geologist.

[Jimbuna]

I think you've done an amazing job Dan....I'm convinced and I sincerely hope and reckon your grandfather would be proud of your stirling efforts.

My respects go to you and your grandfather

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground penetrating radar is a common feature in most modern police forces these days.

It is especially helpful in finding buried objects and or bodies at suspected scenes of crimes.

I have seen it in use on many occasions and can assure you it is a lot more efficient than fingertip searching or indiscriminate digging.

A few examples below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7103836.stm

http://www.global-gpr.com/services/find-evidence.html

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2008/...adar_to_be.php

Thanks for the info jimbuna, that's the gizmo I was thinking might exist.

I guess there's still a lot of undiscovered war graves in the area of former USSR, and also elsewhere in the world, Far-East etc. A lot of unsolved fates 'on a neverending patrol'.

edit. Now that I think about it the Mythbusters were using something similar in order to find Jimmy Hoffa's body from a baseball field. No luck for them.

Sorry for the double-post but thought this might be bump-worthy. A piece from English Russia I came across yesterday, reminded me of this thread. Lots of these graves all over Russia, they will be digging far into the future.

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1999

[Dan D]

Update: the German graves commission has altered its entry for my grandfather. They now locate my grandfather’s final resting place at Chisinau Cemetary where they have buried the 9th dead from the exhumination 2007 at the crossroad in Agronomovka.

It seems, they buy my story.

I have uploaded some pics at youtube. At 2:29, with the map on the engine hood, that is the moment, when I confronted the graves commission guy (red shirt) with my facts and theory.

For my father (with the “bad boy” cap) it was a “hell” of a trip.

[August]

Congratulations. You have done honor to your ancestors.

[Oberon]

Wow, you've done a bloody good job there Dan. Your grandfather would be proud.

[Jimbuna]

Very well done, your a real credit to your family

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Can you request a DNA test on the remains?

[TheBrauerHour]

Great to see you have found some closure. Great reading, thank you for posting this.

[Dan D]

Thx for the kind replies.

Here is some more:

The War Grave Commission has sent us a picture that shows the tomb slab they have erected for my grandfather with his name on it. That means that everything is in order now.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2378/chisinau1.jpg


New info is available because my grandfather***8217;s sister has given the four letters to us that he had written during his last two months from the Eastern front. He was with his home division of Westphalians on holiday in France end of 1943 but then he was transferred as replacement for an injured medical nco of the doomed 79th Infantry Division to the Ukraine, leaving his old division behind.

What happened back then?
First of all a map, it is the map we used to find the place where they had buried my grandfather, it is from a letter dated June 1944.

From left to right: cities Iasi, Ungheni, Pyrlitsa, Agronomovka, Hristoforofka., Cornesti along the rail road Iasi (Romania) via Kishinev (Moldova) to Odessa (Ukraine). The "X" "Grablage"marks where my grandfather was buried in June 1944 at a road junction by his comrades.

The situation:
From ***8220;David M. Glantz, Red storm over the Balkans. The failed Soviet Invasion of Romania, Spring 1944***8221;:
***8220;In the wake of the March victories, the Stavka decided to exploit this unique opportunity by ordering its 2nd and 3rd Ukrainian Fronts to complete destroying the Wehrmacht***8217;s forces in the south-western Ukraine and commence a general advance deep into Romania. In addition to the Black Sea port of Odessa, the Stavka designated the cities of Iasi and Kishinev in Romanian Bessarabia (Moldavia) as the initial objectives of its new strategic thrust. The capture of these cities would prevent Axis (German and Romanian) forces from erecting viable defenses anywhere in northern Romania, thus facilitating future Read Army offensive operations toward Bucharest and the Ploesti oilfields deeper into Romania and the depth of the Balkan region. The Stavka also believed that the capture of these cities would force the Romanian government to renounce its alliance with Hitler and end Romanian participation in the war.***8221;

My grandfather***8217;s section:
[During the latter stages of the successful Uman-Botoshany offensive], ***8220;the 2nd and 6th Tank Army, which were spearheading the advance in this sector, proceeded with relative abandon until German forces halted them on the approaches to Iasi during late March and early April.

For example, Bogdanov***8217;s 2nd Tank Army captured Beltsy and Faleshty, 45 and 30 miles north of Iasi, during the last week of March and then advanced rapidly southward through Todoreshty and seized a section of the Iasi-Kishinev railroad line at Pyrlitsa, 16 miles northeast of Iasi; by doing this, they threatened to split apart the German Eighth Army***8217;s defense. Reacting quickly however, the Eighth Army orchestrated a hasty counterattack with its IV Arm Corps***8217; (Group Mieth***8217;s) 23rd Panzer and Großdeutschland Panzer Grenadier Divisions, which succeeded in recapturing Pyrlitsa on 28 March, bringing the 2nd Tank Army***8217;s attack to an abrupt halt.***8221;

[The fighting in that area commenced for several days until the Red Army went into the defense (end of Uman-Botoshany winter offensive), to launch the 1st Iasi-Kishinev spring offensive (8-23 April 1944) further in the West.]


From the ***8220;war diary of the 79th Infantry division 1939-1945***8221; by Hans Sänger:
***8220;In March 1944, the division was engaged in fighting retreat from Odessa at the Black Sea in the Ukraine to Romania. The Division was transported from Odessa via Tirasopol, Kishinev to Cornesti. The enemy was advancing from north. The division had to try to stop him here.

During a terrible snow storm, End of March until early April, ***8220;the Russian***8221; attacked with far superior forces, but tenacious defense stopped the advance.***8221;

Situation as seen by my grandfather;
23.02.1944:
***8220;Dear Mother and sister,
greetings from Russia.
You certainly will be surprised to hear that I am in Russia now. I too am disappointed that I had to go to Russia. I left Metz (France) on Feb. 9th 1944 at 21.44 pm and arrived here yesterday, Feb. 22 1944 via Germany, Poland and Romania.

I am sure that I am dogged by bad luck this time being sent to Russia.
Why me of all people? But I am sure that I will make it. It is just that it does not suit me that just now as ***8220;A.***8221; (grandmother) is about to give birth I had to go to Russia. That was a cruel blow, but as if anybody would care apart from us. I am hoping that when the little boy or girl arrives now, that you will be able to act for me. The kid may already been born when these lines reach you...

I am hoping that the war is over soon, so that I can get out of this ***8220;dumb country***8221; again.
[?!]

Sunday 27.02.1944 (my father's date of birth):
***8230;
I am now with the 5th company which is the former 1st company as a replacement for an injured comrade. We are in the frontline, on the left bank of the Dnieper river, the Russian on the opposite river bank. At the moment our sector is very quiet. I hope that it will stay like that. If the Russian advances from the North we are ***8220;screwed***8221; (modern English translation).
I am with 2 radio men. We have made the bunker as comfortable as possible. Still, it is a dog***8217;s life, day and night in the bunker. If we leave the bunker during day time, the Russian interferes immediately and shells us with his artillery.

I definitely believe that this war will be over by the end of the year.

09.03.1944:
"***8230;right now we are waiting to be loaded onto trains. The destination is yet unknown but very likely we will be sent to the middle sector of the Front. Bad luck indeed, I am really getting into a mess here! But nothing fazes me anymore and one has to keep the courage.
I am hoping to get a letter soon. I need to know how A. is doing."

Sunday, 03.04. 1944 ( kia on 05.04. 1944):
"Finally I find the time to give a sign of life again. We are in Bessarabia now, near Iasi. But even here the Russian is close on our heels. On Friday, we were almost encircled by them. Just in time we received help from 2 Großdeutschland Panzer Grenadier Divisions and from a panzer reserve to their left. Together we counter-attacked successfully.

I have never experienced such weather in a long time. At some places the snow is 2 metres high.I have not heard from A. yet. I am expecting her letter any day.***8221;