To Hiroshima with a camera. And mines?

Inner Sound · 06-16-09, 12:54 PM

It's March 43. Tell me no boat was given this mission in reality.

It looked like suicide to me but the AI in stock Gold seems to be a bit thick, so it looks doable. Strongly suspect I could score tonnage on the way in and the defence further up would still be dozing.

Is this mission in the enhanced games? Is the defence a bit smarter and more joined up?

And are there any mines? Are there ever mines in SH? And do we ever get sneaky mine-laying missions? And if we do do we have to contend with river currents and tidal flows and changeing tidal heights?

Hartmann · 06-16-09, 01:08 PM

Suicide ?? i don´t think so, only if it was in 1945...

Task Force · 06-16-09, 01:17 PM

Theres enemy mines. but you cant lay mines...

I dont think they would send a sub to recon there.

Stealhead · 06-16-09, 01:21 PM

I dont know Hiroshima had a huge Mitsubishi complex there it was a pretty vital hub of industry and I do belive that there was a modest size naval port there as well.

Unless someone mods it in for US subs you cant lay mines and theyed be boring anyway seeing as you lay them and leave in real life there is no way to get credit. Besides minelaying was not done very often by Us navy subs in combat zones.You loose torpedos whe you carry mines.Better to have a sub as a directly offensive weapon.

Inner Sound · 06-16-09, 04:43 PM

Theres enemy mines. but you cant lay mines...

I dont think they would send a sub to recon there.

Thanks Task Force, I didn't think so either, but would love to learn of a heroic in and out that actually happened. A Gunther Prien with mines.

Stealhead: Mines are a good weapon of naval war - you can use them in defence of course, but also in offense. In later stages of WW2 British subs laid crippling minefields up some important SE Asian commerce rivers.

How to integrate into SH? Dunno. Shoelaces bamboozle me.

Stealhead · 06-16-09, 05:10 PM

This is ture but you have to think of the effect a mision of mine laying vs. a mission of using tropedos to strike. For the crew of a ship they are going to have a higher morale when they have gone to battle stations and destroyed a ship or two they see the direct result of thier work and they know they have harmed the enemy.For a military unit it is posative on morale to know for certain that you have caused harm to the enemy.Aslo mine laying by submarine was very dangerous it was possiable that the sub set off the mine by accident during the laying process.

If you go and lay mines yes you know that some of them may sink something but you are not going to directly witness your work and the mines in WWII had no control so they blew up on anything that came near them enemy or not and mines can also come loose from thier moorings and drift away and end up being a threat to your own submarines.

Mines are very good for defensive aera denial roles in waters your own navy controls adn can therefore maintian the mines. A down side with mines is that the enemy can send mine sweepers into an area they suspect is mined and if they do a good job they will find most of them. A torpedo on the other hand can not be cleared you either avoid one coming at you or you dont.

I belive that OPMONSON has some U-boats with mine laying ability.the idea of going all the way to x point loaded fully or mostly with mines to lay sounds sort dull to me(mostly because there is no true strategic ship lose effect in SH4(in other words after you lay the mines and leave when you complete the mission they wont "be" where you layed them and wont really have any effect) but if you like that idea then I suppose it would be fun. I guess you could lay them infront of an oncoming ship or convoy but in real life they had to be set at a ceratin deapth so if the water was very deep theyd do nothing but sink.

Torplexed · 06-16-09, 07:41 PM

Probably the most awesome mining weapon the US possessed was the B-29 Superfortress bomber. Some 900 mines were laid by them in early 1945 in a campaign called 'Operation Starvation'. It's impact was as dramatic as it's name. The Japanese were as short of minesweepers as they were carriers and battleships by then. The Shimononseki Waterway was closed to shipping for a fortnight, prompting a 50% fall in imports in addition to what damage the subs were already doing. In all, B-29s dropped 12,000 sea mines, which accounted for 63% of all Japanese shipping losses during their period of participation.

Historically, US subs pretty much kept out of major Japanese anchorages until late in the war when mine detection equipment was finally fitted.

Inner Sound · 06-16-09, 09:02 PM

"Historically, US subs pretty much kept out of major Japanese anchorages until late in the war when mine detection equipment was finally fitted."

Smart move. Most British sub losses were from mines. Or space aliens. No one really knows.

It's 3am here. Time for bed.

Stealhead · 06-16-09, 10:55 PM

Well a mine placed with killing a sub in mind can be highly effective. mines land or sea are much like a machinegun set up in a sighted zeroed fixed postion. Anyone worth thier salt is going to place them in certain areas to deter action in fact on land you can use the mines to force the attacker into your machineguns. They could set the mines so that they would get set off by a submerged submarine that is very effective as a sub now has to take risks when he is a possiable mine feild he had to stay on the surface and take his luck with planes spotting him if he dove he may hit a mine.

Inner Sound · 06-17-09, 07:57 AM

I guess it's the challenge of sneaking in and out without being detected that appeals. But then I suppose this Hiroshima mission does exactly that - or would do if it were a bit more challenging.

Torplexed - I'd never heard of 'Operation Starvation'. Just been reading up about it. Amazing. And the politics and personalities around it is fascinating. Thanks for the heads up.

Armistead · 06-17-09, 01:26 PM

The mines exist heavily in some places. I happened to look and saw this one scrapping my con tower..then it blew up.

Loud_Silence · 06-17-09, 04:07 PM

Holy ****!!!

Kipparikalle · 06-17-09, 04:29 PM

I'd shat bricks if I were you when that happened

Stealhead · 06-17-09, 05:38 PM

Well when a sea mine explodes right beside your conning tower like that one is about to pretty much its there one second gone the next.Which I would say is a good thing no one is going to suffer.In real life that would blow the boat in half obliderating most of the crew instantly.You would want be near the blast source in this case if you where in the extreme fore or aft you might have a few seconds to realize your fate Id rather not know than know. think of the Thresher she went down all the way past her crush deapth surely most of the crew was trying to run damage control but as deapth got deeper they had to know that if the problem did not get fixed that they where all going to die together.And I guess this is the view that must have in a submarine you will live and die with your fellow sailors.

Armistead · 06-17-09, 09:18 PM

I've got better SS, but I had that one already DL'ed. It was just one of those moments I looked and saw one...luck or bad luck. What was funny it bobbed in and out through my sub as if my sub were transparent. When it bobbed down I blew tanks, but it came back up and blew. Can't remember the damage, it was high, but I made it back to base.

The same with circular torps, I've been hit my several and never died. So we don't have a realistic damage model, but modders certainly improved it.

06-16-09, 12:54 PM	#1
Inner Sound Sparky Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 152 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	To Hiroshima with a camera. And mines? It's March 43. Tell me no boat was given this mission in reality. It looked like suicide to me but the AI in stock Gold seems to be a bit thick, so it looks doable. Strongly suspect I could score tonnage on the way in and the defence further up would still be dozing. Is this mission in the enhanced games? Is the defence a bit smarter and more joined up? And are there any mines? Are there ever mines in SH? And do we ever get sneaky mine-laying missions? And if we do do we have to contend with river currents and tidal flows and changeing tidal heights?

06-16-09, 01:08 PM	#2
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Suicide ?? i don´t think so, only if it was in 1945... __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

06-16-09, 01:17 PM	#3
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Theres enemy mines. but you cant lay mines... I dont think they would send a sub to recon there. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

06-17-09, 05:38 PM	#14
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Well when a sea mine explodes right beside your conning tower like that one is about to pretty much its there one second gone the next.Which I would say is a good thing no one is going to suffer.In real life that would blow the boat in half obliderating most of the crew instantly.You would want be near the blast source in this case if you where in the extreme fore or aft you might have a few seconds to realize your fate Id rather not know than know. think of the Thresher she went down all the way past her crush deapth surely most of the crew was trying to run damage control but as deapth got deeper they had to know that if the problem did not get fixed that they where all going to die together.And I guess this is the view that must have in a submarine you will live and die with your fellow sailors. Last edited by Stealhead; 06-17-09 at 05:49 PM.

06-16-09, 01:21 PM	#4
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I dont know Hiroshima had a huge Mitsubishi complex there it was a pretty vital hub of industry and I do belive that there was a modest size naval port there as well. Unless someone mods it in for US subs you cant lay mines and theyed be boring anyway seeing as you lay them and leave in real life there is no way to get credit. Besides minelaying was not done very often by Us navy subs in combat zones.You loose torpedos whe you carry mines.Better to have a sub as a directly offensive weapon.

06-16-09, 04:43 PM	#5
Inner Sound Sparky Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 152 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Theres enemy mines. but you cant lay mines... I dont think they would send a sub to recon there. Thanks Task Force, I didn't think so either, but would love to learn of a heroic in and out that actually happened. A Gunther Prien with mines. Stealhead: Mines are a good weapon of naval war - you can use them in defence of course, but also in offense. In later stages of WW2 British subs laid crippling minefields up some important SE Asian commerce rivers. How to integrate into SH? Dunno. Shoelaces bamboozle me.

06-16-09, 05:10 PM	#6
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	This is ture but you have to think of the effect a mision of mine laying vs. a mission of using tropedos to strike. For the crew of a ship they are going to have a higher morale when they have gone to battle stations and destroyed a ship or two they see the direct result of thier work and they know they have harmed the enemy.For a military unit it is posative on morale to know for certain that you have caused harm to the enemy.Aslo mine laying by submarine was very dangerous it was possiable that the sub set off the mine by accident during the laying process. If you go and lay mines yes you know that some of them may sink something but you are not going to directly witness your work and the mines in WWII had no control so they blew up on anything that came near them enemy or not and mines can also come loose from thier moorings and drift away and end up being a threat to your own submarines. Mines are very good for defensive aera denial roles in waters your own navy controls adn can therefore maintian the mines. A down side with mines is that the enemy can send mine sweepers into an area they suspect is mined and if they do a good job they will find most of them. A torpedo on the other hand can not be cleared you either avoid one coming at you or you dont. I belive that OPMONSON has some U-boats with mine laying ability.the idea of going all the way to x point loaded fully or mostly with mines to lay sounds sort dull to me(mostly because there is no true strategic ship lose effect in SH4(in other words after you lay the mines and leave when you complete the mission they wont "be" where you layed them and wont really have any effect) but if you like that idea then I suppose it would be fun. I guess you could lay them infront of an oncoming ship or convoy but in real life they had to be set at a ceratin deapth so if the water was very deep theyd do nothing but sink.

06-16-09, 07:41 PM	#7
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Probably the most awesome mining weapon the US possessed was the B-29 Superfortress bomber. Some 900 mines were laid by them in early 1945 in a campaign called 'Operation Starvation'. It's impact was as dramatic as it's name. The Japanese were as short of minesweepers as they were carriers and battleships by then. The Shimononseki Waterway was closed to shipping for a fortnight, prompting a 50% fall in imports in addition to what damage the subs were already doing. In all, B-29s dropped 12,000 sea mines, which accounted for 63% of all Japanese shipping losses during their period of participation. Historically, US subs pretty much kept out of major Japanese anchorages until late in the war when mine detection equipment was finally fitted.

06-16-09, 09:02 PM	#8
Inner Sound Sparky Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 152 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	"Historically, US subs pretty much kept out of major Japanese anchorages until late in the war when mine detection equipment was finally fitted." Smart move. Most British sub losses were from mines. Or space aliens. No one really knows. It's 3am here. Time for bed.

06-16-09, 10:55 PM	#9
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Well a mine placed with killing a sub in mind can be highly effective. mines land or sea are much like a machinegun set up in a sighted zeroed fixed postion. Anyone worth thier salt is going to place them in certain areas to deter action in fact on land you can use the mines to force the attacker into your machineguns. They could set the mines so that they would get set off by a submerged submarine that is very effective as a sub now has to take risks when he is a possiable mine feild he had to stay on the surface and take his luck with planes spotting him if he dove he may hit a mine.

06-17-09, 07:57 AM	#10
Inner Sound Sparky Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 152 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I guess it's the challenge of sneaking in and out without being detected that appeals. But then I suppose this Hiroshima mission does exactly that - or would do if it were a bit more challenging. Torplexed - I'd never heard of 'Operation Starvation'. Just been reading up about it. Amazing. And the politics and personalities around it is fascinating. Thanks for the heads up.

06-17-09, 01:26 PM	#11
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	The mines exist heavily in some places. I happened to look and saw this one scrapping my con tower..then it blew up.

06-17-09, 04:07 PM	#12
Loud_Silence Planesman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 193 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Holy ****!!!

06-17-09, 04:29 PM	#13
Kipparikalle Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 580 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I'd shat bricks if I were you when that happened

06-17-09, 09:18 PM	#15
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I've got better SS, but I had that one already DL'ed. It was just one of those moments I looked and saw one...luck or bad luck. What was funny it bobbed in and out through my sub as if my sub were transparent. When it bobbed down I blew tanks, but it came back up and blew. Can't remember the damage, it was high, but I made it back to base. The same with circular torps, I've been hit my several and never died. So we don't have a realistic damage model, but modders certainly improved it.