Can you get everyone below deck when under aircraft attack?-without decks awash

[Paul Riley]

Earlier in my patrol tonight I entered AL24,just south of Iceland.It was daylight and had been quiet from air attacks for a long while.I came to within about 600km of the Icelandic coast when a group of 3 P38 fighter bombers came in on my port side and began a VERY FAST attack run.My first encounter with these aircraft also.I was caught off guard and couldnt get the men to the guns quick enough so I ordered flank and began to wildly zig zag,causing the first run of bombs to miss with quite a large margin actually,probably also due to their very fast approach,they overthrew.
This naturally came as quite a shock,and forced me to change my tactics,by submerging all through the day when operating at this range from Iceland,surfacing to recharge only at night,which I have to say is still protecting us from aircraft...for now.
My question is this,is it possible (via a mod for example) to get your men off the deck without going decks awash or submerging?,in order to retain all your speed if caught off guard,or unable to man the guns in rough weather.I really dont want to lose any of my men to MG fire because I couldnt get them below quick enough,which actually happened on my last patrol,I lost 2 men trying to fight back after being totally surprised.

Thanks!

[BulSoldier]

I dont know what mods do you play or vanila but it is always better to crash dive or man the guns instead of just keep going.Even the MG can do damage to your boat and needles to say if it was possible (i think it isnt) to leave noone on bridge you will have no idea when, and from what direction the next attack is coming.

[Jimbuna]

In a word....NO

[Paul Riley]

Bulsoldier,

I use just a few graphical and sound mods,together with the latest commander pack/with patrol editor.
I wouldnt just keep on going,that would be suicide,I would only try and outrun the first attack at high speed,in conditions that have me totally surprised and unable to crash dive in time,or unable to man the guns such as in rough sea.
The watch would have given me the initial warning where they are coming from,then I could have sent them below deck with just me up there (cowering behind the conning tower rim,hoping of course 'I' dont get hit),to watch the planes make their run while we are at top speed,THEN dive before they turn to make their second run.
This of course is just fantasy,nothing more,no harm in asking

Jim,

Thanks for the no nonesense reply,least that wraps this up in one go

[Pisces]

Afaik the last one closes the hatch as the uboat is about to be submerged. Dive as you see fit (crash or manual depth input, and iirc high speed helped very little) and it should all go automatic. The only thing you need to do is order to man the flakgun if he isn't allready to let them know you're still an armed sitting duck. But you know they could get hurt. Oh wel, life is tough in a war. Dive asap.

[PappyCain]

Couple of comments:

Not sure why you do not have sufficient radar or watch warning - either way just crash dive and the men are off the sail in a nano second.

Are you caught when transiting in TC? if so never go above 128. You will have plenty of time to crash dive.

You may lose speed zigging about - I prefer to go hard starboard when the aircraft commit but not before. I get both screws turning and get off battery charge when warned about incoming.

My gunners are the best, very experienced - but when I have more than 3 aircraft I crash dive and at 30m I go hard to starboard u/w. It works through every year. When they toss ahead of you in '44 you are already out of the path.

I also always level off at 50m. I never go deeper.

Hope this helps a tat.

And yes, they will locate you at night so be prepared ... there is a air coverage map which will show you progressive overlapping coverage though the war years. At some point you will always be a potential target of day and night attacks and they will get brutal.

[RoaldLarsen]

Originally Posted by PappyCain

Couple of comments:

Not sure why you do not have sufficient radar or watch warning - either way just crash dive and the men are off the sail in a nano second.

Are you caught when transiting in TC? if so never go above 128. You will have plenty of time to crash dive.

Paul is effectively playing stock, and in stock you often don't get enough warning. I created the following mini-mod through SH3 Commander to tweak the reaction times a bit. Just add it to the end of SH3 Commander's Cfg\Static settings.cfg file, unless you have already modified Sensors.cfg in that file, in which case you should add these modifictions somewhere in the existing [data\Cfg\Sensors.cfg] section

;This section attempts to deal with overly powerful air forces
;by adjusting submarine visual detection parameters
;to make fast moving targets easier to see and reducing the effect of range
;but makes visual detection use crew efficiency,
[data\Cfg\Sensors.cfg]
SensorParameters|Visual range factor=0.4 ;was 0.5
SensorParameters|Visual enemy speed=0.3 ;[>0.0] ;was 0.2
SensorParameters|Visual uses crew efficiency=true ;was false

[Paul Riley]

Roald you are right,I dont get much warning,the only good warnings I get are on absolutely crystal clear days,even the slightest cloud can leave me losing vital seconds getting under.Also,my biscay cross is practically useless,it rarely if EVER gives me a warning.The only time I detected signals with it was a while ago,at night,heavy fog,a destroyer was heading our way,obviously locating us with his radar.It was fairly useful then in that case.

Sorry to be naive here,but what exactly does that hack do?,and is it safe to apply in mid patrol?I must warn you that I have never modified any of the Commander files,and the only hack I have attempted so far is with the man flak guns hotkey,which didnt work by the way,unless when applied after my patrol.

Cheers mate

[Paul Riley]

Just looking at them hacks,I actually dont mind overly powerful air forces,after all,they were the most dangerous threat to a surfaced UBoat,and lowering it might remove some of the realism.

I AM however interested in improving the visual awareness of the watch,and improving the sensitivity of the biscay cross,and any other warning reciever (if this is possible) .I mention the biscay cross because in Iron Coffins Werner mentioned that sometimes the biscay cross went crazy,with radar 'chirps' coming in from all directions.

[RoaldLarsen]

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

... Also,my biscay cross is practically useless,it rarely if EVER gives me a warning.The only time I detected signals with it was a while ago,at night,heavy fog,a destroyer was heading our way,obviously locating us with his radar.It was fairly useful then in that case.

At least you know it is working, then.

The Biscay cross will do nothing if the plane has no radar, or has radar with a shorter wavelength than the cross can detect. Its effectiveness in the game is proportional to the effectiveness of your crew.

IRL, the Brits also sometimes turned of their radar. I don't think the game models this.

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Sorry to be naive here,but what exactly does that hack do?,and is it safe to apply in mid patrol?I must warn you that I have never modified any of the Commander files,and the only hack I have attempted so far is with the man flak guns hotkey,which didnt work by the way,unless when applied after my patrol.

The mod changes the probabllty that your crrew will detect a target visually. It makes it slightly more likely to see things farther away, and it makes it slightly easier to see things that are moving quickly, like an aircraft. It also makes tired watch crews less likely to detect targets. I designed and tested it in order to make the likelyhood of detecting an aircraft in time to dive closer to the historical norm, as determined very loosely from reading patrol logs.

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Just looking at them hacks,I actually dont mind overly powerful air forces,after all,they were the most dangerous threat to a surfaced UBoat,and lowering it might remove some of the realism.

I AM however interested in improving the visual awareness of the watch,and improving the sensitivity of the biscay cross,and any other warning reciever (if this is possible) .I mention the biscay cross because in Iron Coffins Werner mentioned that sometimes the biscay cross went crazy,with radar 'chirps' coming in from all directions.

Well, don't be misled by the comment. I was referring to the net effectiveness of the air force as a function of both their capabilities and the sub's capabilities. This mod does not affect the aircraft at all. It does what you want as far as visual awareness of the watch. It doesn't change the effectiveness of the Biscay Cross.

You may be missing out on warnings from your Biscay Cross if the crew in the radio room is not fully effective. Judging from the Sensor config file, radio room efficiency seems to affect the sensitivity of radar warning detectors (RWDs).

I haven't made a mod to improve RWD sensitivity because I don't have any data that shows that the game has tuned it wrong.

[Paul Riley]

Some useful stuff there Roald,cheers
Actually,my radio room is only run by untrained personnel at the moment,after losing my experienced crew in my previous sinking,which you are only too aware of now
Having said that,even with skilled personnel from my last crew the biscay cross rarely if ever picked much up.I suspect it has something to do with the shorter wavelength as you say,something the cross appears to have serious difficulty with.
I understand the later warning recievers were able to operate in the centimetre band,making them much more sensitive,and can't bloody wait for one!

Thanks.