Those that play RFB

[Armistead]

Not to start a flame with TMO...it's all I've every played.

For those of you that prefer RFB over TMO, what exactly about RFB do you prefer over TMO.

I love TMO. Nothing can be perfect, if I have one complaint it's hard to stage an attack without being picked up. Not that you can't pull one off, but I can be silent waiting a 1000 yards from track with the enemy still several thousand yards off....and here they come. I think in reality if you do things silent, they're not pinging, warships shouldn't sense you several thousand yards off. I'm all for being attacked if I do something stupid and the harder the counterattack the better.

I guess there isn't away to balance the AI before and after an attack.

Also long ago it seems RFB had a problem with the stad...has that been resolved.

I thought I read somewhere someone was working on speed and draft. I think we all know the turbo stops and starts are fubar. Is this being worked on with RFB.

What other mods are being run with RFB other than RSRD...which is a must.

[Task Force]

Idk, Ive always played RFB, never realy tryed TM.

Real enviornment...

[Rockin Robbins]

I play both, and I like both. Conceptually, TMO is a challenging gameplay mod. It basically takes the submarine as you find in stock and modifies the enemy AI to produce the gameplay balance that Ducimus chose. And he chose to give the Japanese rabies. Still, you have the ability to do night surface attacks, you can evade the swarming escorts (although you will get tagged once in awhile). I like the TMO keyboard layout a lot and use it even when I'm playing RFB. I MUCH prefer the TMO plotting system and use that also when I play RFB. In RFB, if you get too close to the plotting table all the contacts vanish. That doesn't make sense to me.

RFB takes the opposite tack from TMO. It leaves the enemy AI alone and modifies the submarine to establish the gameplay balance. The RFB sub is MUCH more vulnerable to gunfire on the surface. Your crew will die on deck and the sub will be turned into swiss cheese if you try to engage a gunboat on its own terms. I like the quick control panel much better with easier to read dials that increase in size much more dramatically on mouseover. I like Hogan's Alley, where you can shelter deck watch while under water. I like the realism of escorts, who do not always detect you, but if they do, they show a great variety of skill from TMO-like to pretty incompetent. After an adjustment I like the more realistic colors in the charting system in the nav map and attack map.

The RFB team is working on target dragster system, and you can check out jrex's Ship Acceleration Physics mod in progress, right here in the mods workshop. It's promising. Even now it's much better than stock.

Right now with RFB I'm running:

• 200 RFB_v1.52_102408
• 210 RFB_v1.52_Patch_18Jan09
• 211 RFB_v1.52_RadarHotfix
• 300 RSRDC_RFBv15_V420
• 600 3000 Yard-Meter Bearing Tools (1280x960)
• 600 Hitman's In Game TSAC v2.1
• 600 SH4 1.5 Crew Message Box v.1.1
• 610 Natural Sinking Mechanics Test Mission
• 610 Rockin Robbins Convoy Mission
• 610 Rockin Robbins' Dick O'Kane FB Targeting Mission
• 610 Shooting Gallery Test Range
• 700 SinglePatrol_Camranh Bay
• 610 TMOkeys
• 610 TMOPlot Final
• 700 Free Torpedoes (STEED)
• 700 SS370 USS Kraken_Rockin Robbins_Fooskin and Captain Cox HI RES SHARK MOUTH
• 600 Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun
• 600 Slightly Subnuclear Mark 14 and Cutie
• Ships Physics v0.2b

I would leave out Steed's free torpedoes. It conflicts with RFB and I am trying to eliminate the problem, so my mod wouldn't be your mod.

You might want to leave out my Slightly Subnuclear weaponry. I had those in there because I was abusing jrex's new mod yesterday. Actually, I sank 100,000 tons in ten minutes, 45 seconds with the above configuration. Where's my 100,000 ton badge? I guess I just devalued that puppy to be worth nothing at all...

[XonE:32]

I have yet to read up on the multi install process... so I only have RFB 1.52 and RSRD and Real Environment. I've never had the chance to play TMO, but I'd like to give it a go at some point. Unfortunately I keep fraggin' my campaign by tinkering with sh!t and having to start over so I have yet to get past May 41.

I get the sense that Rockin's first two paragraghs sums it up nicely though. They're both good, but for different reasons. The bottom line is if you can figure out how to do a multi install with each I'd go for it.

I get the sense that the RFB team went for as much historical accuracy as possible and from what very little I've read, early war Jap ASW was rather crapulent to non-existant.

Interestingly, yesterday was the first time I took out an escort ever. I was surfaced at 3000yds and I disabled it with the deck gun and finished it with a torp. My only complaint: after disbaling it's engine power, it stopped firing back at me. presumeably it couldn't see the muzzle flash of my deck gun and thus chose not to fire back lol. When they do hit you on the surface however, you're pretty much dead and I do enjoy that aspect.

NOTE: That issue of him not firing back (if it is an issue) may have absolutely nothing to do with RFB and more to do with the Real Environment mod? RFB comes with an environment mod so me putting another one over top may have affected the surface sensor abilities of the DD I sunk? Although I imagine my Sargo doesn't put up much of a profile at 3000yds in the middle of the night I still would have thought they might have seen the muzzle flash?

My tonnage is ahistorically high running RFB and RSRD, but I JUST got into SH4 a cpl o weeks ago and I like to look outside a lot so I have the external view on and Map Updates on. In short, until I get more comfy with the TDC, I'm basically cheating. I also look at the RSRD campaign layers with SH3 mission editor which is REALLY cheating LOL. But that's more to do with the desire to try engaging Task Forces to see how the capitol ships look in game and coming up against the escorts. I've had no issues with the stad, works fine for me.

When I get more familair with the game I will turm those 2 options off as I did with SH3 and I assume my tonnage will go WAY down. Frankly I'm already getting a bit tired of coming home after each patrol and winning the Medal of Honor.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by XonE:32

from what very little I've read, early war Jap ASW was rather crapulent to non-existant.

More like inconsistent, a factor RFB reproduces masterfully. Somehow, it telepathically knows when you've said "Japanese ASW is crapulent!" and deals you a couple of elites.

Originally Posted by XonE:32

NOTE: That issue of him not firing back (if it is an issue) may have absolutely nothing to do with RFB and more to do with the Real Environment mod? RFB comes with an environment mod so me putting another one over top may have affected the surface sensor abilities of the DD I sunk?

Yeah, don't do that. All environmental mods have undesirable side effects, even what is included in RFB. The RFB Team just realized that just about everyone would layer some environmental stuff on there anyway, so sought to balance eye candy with gameplay. It's mostly successful. But loading anything environmental on top ruins the gameplay balance.

Ducimus had the same problem with TMO, eventually leading him to remove environmental mods altogether. That's a situation for SH5 to work on. Wonder if they will?

[XonE:32]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

More like inconsistent, a factor RFB reproduces masterfully. Somehow, it telepathically knows when you've said "Japanese ASW is crapulent!" and deals you a couple of elites.



Yeah, don't do that. All environmental mods have undesirable side effects, even what is included in RFB. The RFB Team just realized that just about everyone would layer some environmental stuff on there anyway, so sought to balance eye candy with gameplay. It's mostly successful. But loading anything environmental on top ruins the gameplay balance.

Ducimus had the same problem with TMO, eventually leading him to remove environmental mods altogether. That's a situation for SH5 to work on. Wonder if they will?

Yeah the elites are good. I can't make a completely sound judgement because I have the camera on. So the few times I've set myself up with the SH3 Mission editor to sink some task force ships I was able to watch where the DD and DC's were going and move the hell out of the way (i.e. cheat tsk tsk).

I imagine if I had had the camera off I probably would not have survived some of those encounters. Even though I was very deep very silent and it was early days 42.

I agree the Real Environment or the other environment mods may have undesirable effects with regard to sensors, but it looks so good. And aside from the encounter last night I still find the DD's are often pretty good (depending on their rating) at spotting you from distance even at night IF you're surfaced and putting up a good bow wave say by shadowing a task force too closely at high speed.

Some lead DD's have even detected me at periscope depth while I've waited for a cpl 'o Kongos to pass. That was a Marshall Islands carrier task force in early Feb '42 and the DD's were rated:Veteran.

Detection is one thing though, I'm obvioulsy gonna have to turn off those options sooner rather than later to see how well are at killing me... Yay.