Hit power of torpedoes : US to IJN calculation

[keltos01]

base value

min

130

max

210

ap

100

range min

2

range max

2,5

can't remember where these numbers came from.. I think the mk14 or the basic german torpedo..

this is what I use with the multiplier from the difference in explosive weight :

mk 14 = 292 kg

Type 95 = 405 kg

-> 405/292 = 1.3869.

so is 1.38 times more powerful,

table :

so I multiplied all numbers seen here above by 1.38.

base num multiplier new value T95
min 130 x 1.3869 = 180,308
max 210 = 291,267
ap 100 = 138,698
rg min 2 = 2,773
rg lax 2,5 = 3,750

I did the same for all IJN torpedoes according to their explosive weight (see above table)

so f.i. the armor piercing go from 100 to 138 showing a 38 % increase.

Peabody rightly pointed out to me that 38% more explosive doesn't mean 38 % more damage, I agree with him, but so how much increase must be applied ???

the same is true for the damage the torpedo does : is a smaller damage radius meaning a worse hit for the ship ?

I need help here !

keltos

[tater]

Larger damage radius means more gets damaged.

An explosion happens in the game. In generates a damage value randomly between the min and max value.

It applies 100% of this number out to Rmin, and reduces the damage applied from 100% to 0% between Rmin and Rmax.

The AP complicates things as a modifier.

There is simply no way to scale things in an obvious way without testing since the values are all arbitrary. A "formula" is probably only good as a starting point.

you need to find data on the explosive itself to guage if its equal 1 to 1 with german or us explosive to give you the baseline to determin a 38% increase in explosive is = ? in increased damage.


can you compare DD sinkings on both sides and get any commonalities to do a guestimate on ijn vs us torp damage? the us did have to sink a few DD that were captured by japan and we were forced to sink them.

if you dont get any evidence to the contrary i would use german explosive power values since they were allies and likely sharing the same research

[tater]

There is no algorithm to do this for you. Really. Not possible.

There is a thread in here that was locked about german torpedo strength vs RFB. I did a little digging, and even though I had assumed that german fish were stronger later in the war, the stats show exactly the opposite (looking at sinkings of similar sized merchant targets).

I think the only way is to look at some sinkings, and mess with it til it feels right.

[keltos01]

the problem right now is that although I modded the exact increase in explosive power they do sink ships too easily ingame.

that has to be corrected.

Peabody and I are working on it.

I did notice in the stock German torpedos there are only two sets of numbers.

MinEF=120
MaxEF=180
AP=100
Minradius=3
Maxradius=7

MinEF=80
MaxEF=160
AP=100
Minradius=3
Maxradius=7

so I will now use the first one as base value and see what gives.

Keltos

[tater]

Remember it's going to pick a value between minEF and maxEF. If you think that a given IJN fish should always be ~twice as strong then don't have the min value so low, but maybe the max not so high.

It is going to be VERY ship DM related. The AP value is a heavy modifier on the EF, too. Nothing to say but that it will take a ton of testing. Also, I know nothing about the DM fidelity of allied ships, since I've never shot at any.

[peabody]

Originally Posted by keltos01

the problem right now is that although I modded the exact increase in explosive power they do sink ships too easily ingame.

that has to be corrected.

Peabody and I are working on it.
so I will now use the first one as base value and see what gives.

Keltos

Before you can use those numbers that were posted in the chart (which didn't copy over when I hit reply BTW. ??) is to find out how much explosive that German Torpedo had. Remember, you used the Mark 14 as a base value to compare with the Type 95 Japanese and you knew both amounts of explosive so you can't use the same percentage increase since the Mark 14 only had 100 as MinEF.

So you need to find out which torpedos had 120 as MinEF and how much explosive that torpedo had to get the % increase. When I looked at the numbers I tried using torpedos that were used about the same time period too, not compare one used in 1930's to 1942 and compare that to one used in 1945.

@Tater and Webster: I understand your ideas. I was discussing with Keltos that the problem we are going to run into is the way the game uses "hitpoints". I think there are way too many varialbes involved to say anything exact. But we did have amounts of explosive in the warhead to compare, taken from documentation we found. Problem came in when we both make simple mistakes. He started with the wrong base value and I was comparing to the Type 96 when I though I was comparing to the Type 95 (I was looking at he wrong zon file) so we ended up with two different sets of numbers, we have corrected that.
But the point I was bringing up about damage, is variables involved. Easier to explain with an example.
Comparing warhead from Mark 14 to Type 95 gave a little over 38% more explosive with the 95. Now you fire the torps at a ship and hit the same spot in the center of a compartment, Mark 14 makes a hole, compartment floods. Take the Japanese torp in same location, Type 95 makes a bigger hole, flood faster. Result in real life, one compartment flooded. Bigger hole but basically same damage. In game: more hitpoints given to the ship.

Example 2: Both torps hit close to a bulkhead. Mark 14 makes a hole, does some damage to the bulkhead but not enough to flood both compartments. type 95 makes a bigger hole, so it either extends the hole to the second compartment or damages the bulkhead enough to flood both compartments. Totally different outcome.

And of couse I am not taking into consideration any cargo or ammo bunkers etc.

So I think the idea of try it 'until it feels right' is a good idea, since there are too many variables for anything to be exact.
Peabody