being stealthy?

jbd_3_1 · 03-16-09, 10:11 AM

i see videos on you tube of people attacking convoys without ever getting noticed even when they are on the surface even when they can see all the ships in the convoy. i try to stay surfaced so that i can send a contact report and then submerge. but i always get noticed. i have settings set to easy. i am pretty new to subsims. i am having alot of fiun, but i would like some tips if anyone has them on how to avoid detection. thanks in advance.

Frame57 · 03-16-09, 11:26 AM

Depends on your range. Your lookouts can give you the ship spotted sometimes before the AI sees you. But if you are in targeting range to set up your fish then the AI will always see you. remeber they have radar too. Try getting a visual at dusk from about 4 to 5 thousand yards and then report the contact, sometimes you get aradio message back and support can come by aircraft. Does not always happen. Once the AI knows you are there they signal the convoy and they start zig zagging and setting up a clean shot is almost imposssible, so stay submerged and dip your scope often, do not just leave it up while at PD.

Piggy · 03-16-09, 11:51 AM

Ive been able to get close on the surface (at night) but usually make all my attacks submerged anyway. It seems harder to do surface attacks in SH4 then it is in SH3, maybe its because they subs are so much bigger (a german VII is quite small compared to US fleet boats for example).

Also remember to keep your speed low. The AI can spot you if you're putting up a big wake, which is realistic... Nothing like a big trail of white frothy foam on a dark calm night to give yourself away. Also, keep your profile low, meaning dont show the convoy/ship your side profile, try to keep the bow pointed towards the ship so you're presenting as little of your profile as possible, you might even try going in decks awash.

jbd_3_1 · 03-16-09, 12:32 PM

thanks for the tips. i dont try to do surface attacks. but i like to send the contact reports and then target the ships they tell me too.

also if anyone can tell me why when i try to attack the escort ships they always know my torps. are coming and dodge them. just had it happen today. i took a shot from 2500 yds, and he dodged so i reloaded the mision and did it from 2000 yds with same results.

JonB · 03-16-09, 12:56 PM

Well, they can see the steam-trail if you are using MK14´s. Especially during the day. They spot your torp early enough to avoid it. Use electrical torps when they are availible.

According to some, they can also hear the torp by using passive sonar...

Happy hunting

SteamWake · 03-16-09, 02:32 PM

The first key to remaining stealthy is to not let them know your there in the first place.

Calling in convoy contacts, in my opinion is busted. So I dont typically even bother.

Some things you might try is the decks awash method which reduces the range at which you can be spotted considerably. It also kills your speed / manuverability.

I will attack the convoy as best I can, then slink away. Only then if I get the chance will I call it in. What is really bogus is that you can spot a convoy, sail some 'safe' distance away, surface to call it in, and guess what? You can no longer call it in because the ships are no longer 'in sight'. Thats why I say its busted.

I mean we had their course, speed, numbers, why the hell cant I call it in?

jbd_3_1 · 03-16-09, 04:02 PM

great info everyone. i never even thought about them being ale to see them. i thought they were hearing them. i guess im gonna have to quit calling in the convoys and just start sinking them anyways.

is it easier to attack at night? since it will be hardcer for them to see you? and is the best idea just to get a fair distance away, surface, and run a parralell track until night time?

i know i know.....im such a noob lol. thanks again everyone.

old_tex · 03-16-09, 05:12 PM

Generally, I come in from 90 degrees. I get a good RADAR fix on the ships in the convoy and measure, using the divider tool, the distance from the center-line of the convoy to the outermost escort, say 2500 yds. Then I try to position myself at 1200 yds off the centerline and come in below the Thermocline silently. I wait for the lead escort to go by and then come to periscope depth, keeping an eye on the outer escorts. Generally, I can get a couple of shots off before they find me. Then, I run under the convoy to the other side and come up again for a couple of aft tube shots. Then, it's anyone's guess what's next- based on the situation.

Escorts are ellusive, to say the least. They are fast- almost as fast as a torpedo (33 knots vs 45 knots). If you can get close enough (< ~600 yds), you might get a shot in. Remember, they are basically deaf from behind, much like you are. If you can catch one napping and can sneak in from behind at, say, 100ft down, come up and sting him from about 400 yds. It's tricky, but then, that's the fun of it. In real life, you wouldn't want to tangle with a fast ship going in harm's way.

After all, a sub is a stealth unit that lays in ambush.

Old_Tex

Etienne · 03-16-09, 06:06 PM

What I do, with radar:

1. Detect the convoy. On the chart, trace their course.

2. Run parrallel to that course at high speed, to overtake the convoy by a few miles (Five or six is best). Once you pass the convoy, start converging toward their course, at a shallow angle.

3. Once you're far enough from the convoy that they won't see you, cut in perpendicular to their track. Update their course to make sure its correct, from radar information. Make a circle for about a thousand yard, centered on the course; this is where you want to be when the convoy shows up.

4. Dive. Go deep, silent and slow. Wait.

5. When the first escort goes past you (IE, you can hear them on 000 degrees, or 180), go to PD. Scope up, pick your target, scope down. Set torpedoes.

6. Wait until your target is close to when you need to shoot. Scope up. Shoot. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Two things to remember:

-Try to position yourself between two columns of ships, so you can use both the forward tubes and the aft ones.
-If you're attacking multiple ships, try to have your torps hitting at the same time, or as close as possible. SHII made this easier, but generally, just shoot at the farther target first. There are two reasons for this : One, after the first explosion, everybody's going to start zig-zagging, and that's inconvenient. Two, it's wicked cool.

Once you've killed everyone you wanted to kill, or expended all your torpedoes, go deep and slink away. If you're in shallow waters - And you shouldn't be, because you picked the battle field - or unable to go deep, keep at least one fish at each end, in case somebody decides to get fresh.

I've used this technic (In stock) to wipe out the entire merchant contingent of a convoy, without taking a single DC

Haven't tried it with one of the realism mods, tho.

Armistead · 03-17-09, 02:40 AM

Night surface attacks aren't really possible as they were in actual war, where skippers often sneaked by dd's at 1000 yards.

What I do if it's a big TF and I don't want to have to dive is surface attack at night at about 3000 yards. I will actually run parrallel at the same speed and shoot from that position. If you set some torps to low, some hight, have some doors opened, some closed...sorta tricky, but even though it's a bad angle, you can fire all 10 tubes at the same time, with a nice spread on a few overlapping targets, the right timing as stated, you can about have all 10 torps coming in side by side at the same time. Makes for a good show.

indy · 03-18-09, 11:49 AM

I can send a contact report if I do it from a very long way off, the enemy ships must be just visible, shadow like, just able to make them out with the TDC or scope, just the very outline of them, I am running parallel to them, most of the time. Once I report them, I do a end around and I then set up for the attack and then submerge and wait for them to come by me. Hope this helps. Indy

03-16-09, 10:11 AM	#1
jbd_3_1 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	being stealthy? i see videos on you tube of people attacking convoys without ever getting noticed even when they are on the surface even when they can see all the ships in the convoy. i try to stay surfaced so that i can send a contact report and then submerge. but i always get noticed. i have settings set to easy. i am pretty new to subsims. i am having alot of fiun, but i would like some tips if anyone has them on how to avoid detection. thanks in advance.

03-16-09, 11:26 AM	#2
Frame57 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: 1300 feet on the crapper Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Depends on your range. Your lookouts can give you the ship spotted sometimes before the AI sees you. But if you are in targeting range to set up your fish then the AI will always see you. remeber they have radar too. Try getting a visual at dusk from about 4 to 5 thousand yards and then report the contact, sometimes you get aradio message back and support can come by aircraft. Does not always happen. Once the AI knows you are there they signal the convoy and they start zig zagging and setting up a clean shot is almost imposssible, so stay submerged and dip your scope often, do not just leave it up while at PD. __________________ "My Religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds." Albert Einstein

03-16-09, 02:32 PM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The first key to remaining stealthy is to not let them know your there in the first place. Calling in convoy contacts, in my opinion is busted. So I dont typically even bother. Some things you might try is the decks awash method which reduces the range at which you can be spotted considerably. It also kills your speed / manuverability. I will attack the convoy as best I can, then slink away. Only then if I get the chance will I call it in. What is really bogus is that you can spot a convoy, sail some 'safe' distance away, surface to call it in, and guess what? You can no longer call it in because the ships are no longer 'in sight'. Thats why I say its busted. I mean we had their course, speed, numbers, why the hell cant I call it in? __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

03-16-09, 05:12 PM	#8
old_tex Gunner Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Mexico Posts: 94 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	How I attack Convoys Generally, I come in from 90 degrees. I get a good RADAR fix on the ships in the convoy and measure, using the divider tool, the distance from the center-line of the convoy to the outermost escort, say 2500 yds. Then I try to position myself at 1200 yds off the centerline and come in below the Thermocline silently. I wait for the lead escort to go by and then come to periscope depth, keeping an eye on the outer escorts. Generally, I can get a couple of shots off before they find me. Then, I run under the convoy to the other side and come up again for a couple of aft tube shots. Then, it's anyone's guess what's next- based on the situation. Escorts are ellusive, to say the least. They are fast- almost as fast as a torpedo (33 knots vs 45 knots). If you can get close enough (< ~600 yds), you might get a shot in. Remember, they are basically deaf from behind, much like you are. If you can catch one napping and can sneak in from behind at, say, 100ft down, come up and sting him from about 400 yds. It's tricky, but then, that's the fun of it. In real life, you wouldn't want to tangle with a fast ship going in harm's way. After all, a sub is a stealth unit that lays in ambush. Old_Tex

03-18-09, 11:49 AM	#11
indy Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: 500 Ft. Below the Surface Posts: 105 Downloads: 883 Uploads: 0	Contact Report I can send a contact report if I do it from a very long way off, the enemy ships must be just visible, shadow like, just able to make them out with the TDC or scope, just the very outline of them, I am running parallel to them, most of the time. Once I report them, I do a end around and I then set up for the attack and then submerge and wait for them to come by me. Hope this helps. Indy

03-16-09, 11:51 AM	#3
Piggy Ensign Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Posts: 234 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 0	Ive been able to get close on the surface (at night) but usually make all my attacks submerged anyway. It seems harder to do surface attacks in SH4 then it is in SH3, maybe its because they subs are so much bigger (a german VII is quite small compared to US fleet boats for example). Also remember to keep your speed low. The AI can spot you if you're putting up a big wake, which is realistic... Nothing like a big trail of white frothy foam on a dark calm night to give yourself away. Also, keep your profile low, meaning dont show the convoy/ship your side profile, try to keep the bow pointed towards the ship so you're presenting as little of your profile as possible, you might even try going in decks awash.

03-16-09, 12:32 PM	#4
jbd_3_1 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	thanks for the tips. i dont try to do surface attacks. but i like to send the contact reports and then target the ships they tell me too. also if anyone can tell me why when i try to attack the escort ships they always know my torps. are coming and dodge them. just had it happen today. i took a shot from 2500 yds, and he dodged so i reloaded the mision and did it from 2000 yds with same results.

03-16-09, 12:56 PM	#5
JonB Bosun Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Halmstad, Sweden Posts: 69 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Well, they can see the steam-trail if you are using MK14´s. Especially during the day. They spot your torp early enough to avoid it. Use electrical torps when they are availible. According to some, they can also hear the torp by using passive sonar... Happy hunting

03-16-09, 04:02 PM	#7
jbd_3_1 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	great info everyone. i never even thought about them being ale to see them. i thought they were hearing them. i guess im gonna have to quit calling in the convoys and just start sinking them anyways. is it easier to attack at night? since it will be hardcer for them to see you? and is the best idea just to get a fair distance away, surface, and run a parralell track until night time? i know i know.....im such a noob lol. thanks again everyone.

03-16-09, 06:06 PM	#9
Etienne Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 695 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	What I do, with radar: 1. Detect the convoy. On the chart, trace their course. 2. Run parrallel to that course at high speed, to overtake the convoy by a few miles (Five or six is best). Once you pass the convoy, start converging toward their course, at a shallow angle. 3. Once you're far enough from the convoy that they won't see you, cut in perpendicular to their track. Update their course to make sure its correct, from radar information. Make a circle for about a thousand yard, centered on the course; this is where you want to be when the convoy shows up. 4. Dive. Go deep, silent and slow. Wait. 5. When the first escort goes past you (IE, you can hear them on 000 degrees, or 180), go to PD. Scope up, pick your target, scope down. Set torpedoes. 6. Wait until your target is close to when you need to shoot. Scope up. Shoot. Rinse, lather, repeat. Two things to remember: -Try to position yourself between two columns of ships, so you can use both the forward tubes and the aft ones. -If you're attacking multiple ships, try to have your torps hitting at the same time, or as close as possible. SHII made this easier, but generally, just shoot at the farther target first. There are two reasons for this : One, after the first explosion, everybody's going to start zig-zagging, and that's inconvenient. Two, it's wicked cool. Once you've killed everyone you wanted to kill, or expended all your torpedoes, go deep and slink away. If you're in shallow waters - And you shouldn't be, because you picked the battle field - or unable to go deep, keep at least one fish at each end, in case somebody decides to get fresh. I've used this technic (In stock) to wipe out the entire merchant contingent of a convoy, without taking a single DC Haven't tried it with one of the realism mods, tho.

03-17-09, 02:40 AM	#10
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Night surface attacks aren't really possible as they were in actual war, where skippers often sneaked by dd's at 1000 yards. What I do if it's a big TF and I don't want to have to dive is surface attack at night at about 3000 yards. I will actually run parrallel at the same speed and shoot from that position. If you set some torps to low, some hight, have some doors opened, some closed...sorta tricky, but even though it's a bad angle, you can fire all 10 tubes at the same time, with a nice spread on a few overlapping targets, the right timing as stated, you can about have all 10 torps coming in side by side at the same time. Makes for a good show.