Destroyers: How do YOU handle them?

[-Danse-]

Small question:

When facing Destroyers that are aware of me and actively searching, I usually try to slink off as quietly and carefully as possible. This has, in the past, led to some horrific depth charging and alot of cheering from the surface.

Live and learn.

Recently, after plotting and attacking a convoy, starting with that big fat T3 first, I found myself in the familiar position of trying to evade two destroyers.

For a change I went on the offensive. Once I had a feel for their depth charge runs, I came to the surface, quickly ID'd them both, and then we took it in turns. They would have a run at me while I flanked as deep as I dared while turning out of their path, then I would surface and try a shot at one of them using the notepad. (U-195 present sir!).

Long story short, after a couple of misses and a tenacious British Destroyer that actually took two fish to sink her, I finally got both of em. (It was all very Curt Jurgens/Robert Mitchum there for a while.)

I had what I would term superficial damage. The crew was a bit shook up, but again nothing a bit of rest couldn't cure.

I was then safe to go ravage the rest of the convoy with the deck gun. (Nice mix of boats between 1500 and 4000 tonnes.)

To my question. (Finally!)

What do YOU do? Do you go on the offensive, do you have any good tips for slinking off undetected, or even do you have some good depth charge evasion tips?

Inquiring minds want to know!


Danse

[Armistead]

Obvious what mods your using effects the AI. I've played both TMO and RFB with RSRD and the AI is much better. Try fighting Bungo Pete with TMO, that's a job.

I play for real..I want my men to live. I treat them as if it were real life. So, I never put them in harms way for the fun of it. I start with tracking and try to get in from the side with the least worries or weakest DD.s. I ID each before I attack, so I know what I'm against.

If my attack goes well, but one dd is almost always closer and on the way, I try to set up a stern DTT shot and get one out of the way. I prefer stern, because you're going away. I always use a spread of three and usually get on hit.

I play 100% realism and no updates or cams. So all I can see if what the scope or sonar tell me. Then you have your ears. With good mods, I prefer not to just creep away.

It's a different game when you can't see what's up there. I will stay silent, go slow at times, flank at others. If a dd passes over, that's when you can hit the speed.
When they ping, you can speed up some, but have to be carful, because others may be listening. The pinging ship can't hear you. If you don't use cams and updates, sonar and ears are all you .

If no damage, I will go way deep if possible, but know your limits. If shallow, when one makes a run over me. I will go back full and come up to periscope depth and try to shoot him in the arse. Still, I will do everything possible not to attack TF or Convoys in shallow water...may take some time to track, but I look for that deeper pool in the shallows.

I dance a jog, lots of turns, speed changes. The goal is to get out of the circle of death. Then don't be stupid. If one dd gets contact, the others usually will come back to the hunt.

[surf_ten]

I have tried to do the stern attack method with little success. I prefer not to waste my torps. So I handle escorts with evasion.


I am playing with the 1.63 TMO mod. I avoid any shallow water confrontation. If I don't have at least 300 ft to play with I am not risking my boat or my crews lives.

I have notice that creeping along at 2 kts rigged for silent running about 30-40 ft under the thermo layer masks me fairly well even with their active pinging. I also keep my rudder at 5 to 10 degree turn at all times. I try to turn my sub so that my stern is facing towards the escorts.


When I attack a convey I always drive my boat towards my victims and the convoy survivors. I don't know why but it seems to me that escorts get confused around a sunken sink. Also I 'm hoping the sound of those noisy merchants mask my noise of my sub. I am not even sure that's model into the game but it makes sense to me.

When I'm in a active ping range of an escort and can hear the escort overhead, once I hear the canisters hit the water I dive, hit flank speed and hard rudder and place my stern towards the escorts to minimize my sonar profile. Usually it's a 5-8 second burst of flank speed and drift to my new position. Also after the attack is done I return to my original depth of 30 to 40 feet under the layer.

If they escorts are not directly above me I maintain my creeping speed and dive to a lower depth. After the cans explode I move back to my original depth under the layer.


I have had several convoys attacks where after firing my torpedoes I immediately dived under the thermo layer and escorts never come close to discovering me. I love that when I can pull off a successful attack and still mantain my stealth. I listen and laugh when I hear depth charges explode hundreds of yards away. Usually around my original firing position.

I usually find I can evade even a group of escorts using these techinques.

Watch out for the sneaky escorts that stay drifting up top. You can detect these guys with the passive sonar light. You won't be able to hear them but the sonar light will pick them up and will lite up around their position.

[Rockin Robbins]

What have you done? What HAVE you done? You have evoked the frustration deep in the heart of all submarine captains of WWII. There is a hate in each of our lives, a cruel and savage hate. When we see an Asashio with a bone in its teeth at AoB zero, we know we will shortly be forced to extreme depth at excruciatingly slow speeds, dodging and weaving while every member of the destroyer's crew tries to kill every one of us. WE HATE THEM!

JUST ONCE in our lives, we would like to do this to one of those. Wouldn't it be great to get them from about two miles away, before they even know we exist? Watch the movie Asashio, We Hardly Knew Ye, a heartwarming story of revenge, served piping hot! If you lack the ability to watch MP4 movies on your computer, go get VLC Media Player, or stream it online to watch it. Bring popcorn! This will warm your heart.

[-Danse-]

Good advice all round!

Good recording too. Liked the triple, quadruple, quintuple backflip that the ship did in it! Best bit had to be hovering the cursor over tube one as it was reloading though.

Progress: 97/100
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Progress: 98/100
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Been there!



Danse

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by surf_ten

I have tried to do the stern attack method with little success. I prefer not to waste my torps. So I handle escorts with evasion.


I am playing with the 1.63 TMO mod. I avoid any shallow water confrontation. If I don't have at least 300 ft to play with I am not risking my boat or my crews lives.

I have notice that creeping along at 2 kts rigged for silent running about 30-40 ft under the thermo layer masks me fairly well even with their active pinging. I also keep my rudder at 5 to 10 degree turn at all times. I try to turn my sub so that my stern is facing towards the escorts.


When I attack a convey I always drive my boat towards my victims and the convoy survivors. I don't know why but it seems to me that escorts get confused around a sunken sink. Also I 'm hoping the sound of those noisy merchants mask my noise of my sub. I am not even sure that's model into the game but it makes sense to me.

When I'm in a active ping range of an escort and can hear the escort overhead, once I hear the canisters hit the water I dive, hit flank speed and hard rudder and place my stern towards the escorts to minimize my sonar profile. Usually it's a 5-8 second burst of flank speed and drift to my new position. Also after the attack is done I return to my original depth of 30 to 40 feet under the layer.

If they escorts are not directly above me I maintain my creeping speed and dive to a lower depth. After the cans explode I move back to my original depth under the layer.


I have had several convoys attacks where after firing my torpedoes I immediately dived under the thermo layer and escorts never come close to discovering me. I love that when I can pull off a successful attack and still mantain my stealth. I listen and laugh when I hear depth charges explode hundreds of yards away. Usually around my original firing position.

I usually find I can evade even a group of escorts using these techinques.

Watch out for the sneaky escorts that stay drifting up top. You can detect these guys with the passive sonar light. You won't be able to hear them but the sonar light will pick them up and will lite up around their position.

One thing I've noticed and I'm sure it's a bug. I attacked the Hiryu. All out of torps. It was all but sunk, but wouldn't go down. I escaped from the dd's. They were on the other side of the Hiryu at about 3000 yards. I was under the Hiryu. I've never sunk a carrier with a deckgun, don't think it can't be done. But the carrier looked like it was 98% damaged. I even waited a few hours to see if it would sink.

I wanted this thing sunk

I finally came up on the other of it, side by side, even scraping at times. I let go with the DG. I realized that wouldn't do it, so I tried to ram it over. It looked like you could breath on it and it would roll over. When the dd's came, I would dive. However, I wasn't paying enough attention. One dd came around, but wouldn't shoot. I watched. Then all three dd's would make circles around the carrier, but when they came to my side, they wouldn't shoot. They all lighted me up.

I assume if you get that close to a ship, the game programs you not there or doesn't allow the ship to shoot because of FF. I sunk two dd with my DG while they sat there. Still, I pushed the Hiryu. All of a sudden the last DD blasted me. I saw why, the Hiryu was sinking. I didn't get credit for it, so I assume ramming doesn't score. Not sure what sunk it. It wasn't from my torp damage, because it should have scored if so.

I would never play this way again, not real. I did try it a few more times. I got in a convoy moving and stayed right beside a merchant, scraping close. The dd's ignored me, unless I strayed distance. Now a armed merchant may shoot back, haven't tried it again.

[Berinhardt]

Although there is a great deal of satisifaction in sinking a convoy while the escorts are left scratching their heads, I have found it beneficial to attack escorts using torps, and then engaging the rest of the convoy with the deck gun when feasible.

My general criteria for an offensive escort strategy is:

1. It's night time or fog/rain conditions to reduce chance of air support
2. There are only 2-3 escorts (depending on target composition by tonnage - tankers and cruise ship's vs low value freighters)
3. I'm low on torpedoes. (less than 5 torps left)

I have two approaches to this depending on my boat's position. Ideally I try to get in front of the convoy so the lead destroyer is within 600 yards of me when I engage him. This gives him little time to react, and forces the convoy to take evasive manuevers. After the first torp hits the escort, I turn in the direction of the convoy (so stern tubes facing the convoy), launch decoys and go to flank speed for a few seconds, then drift. The remaining escorts typically make a bee line for my location setting up 2 easy "down the throat" attacks at less than 600 yards. Then I surface and attack the convoy with my deck gun which is already facing them with a minimum profile for my boat.

If I can't get in front of the convoy, I'll attack the side escort at close range, turn 90 degrees and then engage the remaining escorts as they race to my location. Again, launching decoys as bait works well. Just don't miss if you're down to your last torp.

[VonGlaus]

I just run away.

Although, since re-starting my career with TMO 1.63, the escorts do seem a bit dumber at the beginning of the war. With 1.62 they were all over me, this time they seem to have a bit more trouble locating me if I go deep.

So I get one good set of shots and run away.

"He who sinks and runs away, Lives to sink another day."

[Max2147]

It's obvious, but silent running is your friend. I was sneaking away from a gang of destroyers once, and they were right on top of me all over the map. Then I realized I had forgotten to rig for silent running. I switched it on, and the destroyers instantly scattered.

Once I managed to find a destroyer sitting stopped on the surface at night. I managed to sneak up on him and get a couple shots off, but as soon as he saw the torpedoes coming he shot off like a drag racer.

[gut eater]

My real question is; what are the limits or parameters for what destroyers/sub chasers can detect? I had an incident when I was set up on a convoy, heavy rain/bad visibility, day time. I was rigged for silent running and at periscope depth, waiting for the convoy. Of course, the destroyer came through the kill zone first, on a direct path to go right over me. So knowing this in advance, I dropped periscope, and dropped depth by 20 feet, hoping the destroyer would pass over me undetected. The destroyer was still not visible at this point so I know I couldn't have been, and he had to have been 1500+ yards away.

As I was approx. 80+ feet under, the damned destroyer pinged me and went straight for me with depth charges, ruining my ambush. What I don't get is HOW he detected me. Can anyone explain the limits of what they can and can't do in that situation?

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Originally Posted by gut eater

My real question is; what are the limits or parameters for what destroyers/sub chasers can detect? I had an incident when I was set up on a convoy, heavy rain/bad visibility, day time. I was rigged for silent running and at periscope depth, waiting for the convoy. Of course, the destroyer came through the kill zone first, on a direct path to go right over me. So knowing this in advance, I dropped periscope, and dropped depth by 20 feet, hoping the destroyer would pass over me undetected. The destroyer was still not visible at this point so I know I couldn't have been, and he had to have been 1500+ yards away.

As I was approx. 80+ feet under, the damned destroyer pinged me and went straight for me with depth charges, ruining my ambush. What I don't get is HOW he detected me. Can anyone explain the limits of what they can and can't do in that situation?

I don't have SH4 yet but play SH3 which has similar AI and tactics. Real life may be different but as far as the AI goes. If your sub is in the destroyers Sonar cone he will ping you automatically. The AI has the advantage after all of knowing where every unit is in game. So the AI recognizes your in the DD's sonar cone and auto pings. Especially if you are broadside to him instead of facing him as it presents the sonar a bigger target.

You have to get off to the side and of course in the bad weather it wasn't possible.
I find the AI a bit annoying myself. I mean I doubt a DD captain is going to constantly ping on a voyage that takes a month. They probably did it in some kinda routine. So its a bit unrealistic that the AI auto pings because your in sonar range unless they spot you which searchlights or hear your props which is lot likely in bad weather with silent running.

[Frame57]

Going on the offense is tempting, but the main idea is to sink the merchants which we all know. With a slow moving convoy I usually will plot their course and knuckle around several miles ahead of them to position myself accordingly and wait. One would think that at an all stop with silent running at about 75 feet the AI would not detect me, but usually, magically they do. They manage to do this without active sonar to boot...? So, I found that if I hide under the layer until the first destroyer has passed I come up to PD to attack and then go deep and change course 180 degrees. Then I repeat the process after the convoy has regrouped and has proceeded once again. If Ai has detected you, the only way to evade is to use the thermals and decoys and slip away by sprinting and drifting.

[gut eater]

After posting and reading your replies, I've had some success in waiting beneath the thermolayer (150 ft+) for that first scout destroyer to pass over, then I raise to periscope depth and blast the sob's. I wish they gave the ability in the game to control the destroyers if you wanted just so you knew it's limits (sonar) when going against them. Thanks.

[Rockin Robbins]

The problem is that if you are an expert like Ducimus, you know exactly what you can get away with and whether the escorts can detect you at almost all times. In other words, armed with that knowledge, you are just gaming the game. All challenge is then gone, you have a lousy time playing and next week you abandon SH4 forever in favor of Left 4 Dead.

Doubt and uncertainty is necessary because the real sub captains had little BUT doubt and uncertainty. We want everything cut and dried, with perfect databases of exact target lengths, precise masthead heights, absolute knowledge of enemy search capabilities, perfect torpedoes (no deep runners or circle runners!) and a deck gun that can slug it out with the Yamato.

They were confronted with ONI manuals containing a small fraction of the targets out there, and unreliable information on them, no knowledge about enemy search and ASW capabilities at all, lousy torpedoes so that six erratics, duds, circle runners or any combination could be fired in a single salvo of six shots, and a deck gun that was as hazardous to the shooter as the target.

So the question becomes, do you want a simulation or the naval version of Quake? A simulation MUST include a healthy dose of doubt and uncertainty, as does real life.

[DCOg]

I have a situation/question about Destroyers.
I am 4000 yards behind a large Jap convoy.
I'm on the surface at 18 knots - it's 6 am.
Convoy is travelling @ 13 knots.
Then the destroyers detect me.
Under water even at flank speed I'm down to 8 knots at best.
Even if I managed to survive the destroyers by the time I lose them
the convoy is gone.

How best to handle this?

Thanks
DCOg