How can I suck so much as SH4 when I am good at SH3?

Platapus · 01-26-09, 09:51 PM

Ok clearly this has to be a case of operator error. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

I have been playing SH3 (gwx+olc) for a while and I am pretty good at the manual targeting (80% realism). I have no problems with manual targeting with SH3. I put holes in the floaty things all the time.

I recently dusted off Sh4 (1.4+ TM) at 79% realism and I can't hit a bull on the butt with a bass fiddle. Even setting up a sweet "Dick O'Kane" and shooting four fish I miss

I have to be missing something real simple and stupid as that is the type of Captain I am.

Lemme see if I understand SH4 manual targeting and perhaps one of your smart guys (including the ladies, of course) can help this landlubber. This is what I have been doing.

Setting up a "Dick O'kane" approach.

1. Take several sightings to get speed and course plotted. I still use 3:15 as I have SH4 setup for metric.

2. Position sub appropriately for a 90 degree intercept at less than 1000 meters. Standard just like SH3.

3. Open the data entry wheel

3a select speed and rotate wheel to indicate speed of target in knots, Hit red triangle to send data to TDC

3b select AOB and set AoB to 90 degrees (yes making sure I have port and starboard correctly set [made that mistake way too often]). Hit red triangle to send data to TDC

4. Set periscope to 350 (for starboard approach) or 010 (for Port approach). Keep periscope stationary.

5. Set torpedo depth for all tubes

5a do nothing with PK

6. Open all torpedo doors

7. Wait for juicy parts of target to pass stationary periscope

8. Torpedoes Los! er I mean Fire torpedoes as juicy parts pass hairline.

9. See all torpedoes miss target

What step am I missing? All I am doing is sending two pieces of data to the TDC. I am not doing anything with the range (one time I spun the range to the max).

I only hit the red triangle twice (to enter speed and AoB). Do I have to activate anything else even if I am not using the PK?

Am I missing something. I have set up perfect "O'kane" approaches about 5-7 times and always miss. In SH3 I never miss with a good setup.

Help me before I defect back to the Kregsmarine.

Fincuan · 01-27-09, 01:47 AM

You procedure is just about ok, but you forgot one fundamental thing: In a Fleet boat the periscope is not tied to the TDC.

US TDC does not update the gyro angle based on where the periscope is pointing, unlike its German counterpart, but based on either manual user input or PK. Sending range also sends bearing, and it's always a good habit to click the "Send to TDC" button twice whenever sending the range.

In other words your procedure needs one step corrected. I would also do this before you set AOB, just in case, and also use the real AOB instead of 90. This AOB is of course only valid for 90 degree intercepts.

3b) Point the scope to the 350 or 10. Spin the range wheel to for example 1500 meters, hit "Send to TDC" twice.
4) Set AOB to 80 port or starboard, "Send to TDC"

Platapus · 01-27-09, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fincuan

You procedure is just about ok, but you forgot one fundamental thing: In a Fleet boat the periscope is not tied to the TDC.

I forgot about that "little" detail. <hanging head in shame>

I must have been hungo---uh sick that day in Sub School.

Quote:

3b) Point the scope to the 350 or 10. Spin the range wheel to for example 1500 meters, hit "Send to TDC" twice.
4) Set AOB to 80 port or starboard, "Send to TDC"

Much thanks for this tip. Perhaps tonight I can finally poke a few holes in the Japanese floaty things.

Angron, Yes 3:15 is the same as 3:00 just for metric. I am a metric kinda guy so I like to keep everything in metrics. I disabled the Nomograph in SH4 as I don't like Nomos I can't move. I will look for a good nomo mod as they sure are handy for times when you can't do 3:00/3:15.

Fish40 · 01-27-09, 07:06 AM

Platapus, if you haven't red this, it's all explained here: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu45I.H...%3ftopic=374.0

Rockin Robbins · 01-27-09, 10:17 AM

Please visit the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread for some really cool 3/5 printable cards for the Dick O'Kane Method, the John P Cromwell Method and the Vector Analysis Method. Yes, I can assure you that it is just as frustrating to go from the American to the German Boat. I had to deficate on the poop deck until I could find out what the @#$#% they call the bathroom.

Interestingly, Nisgeis tells me that in the real American boat you could directly hook up the periscope bearing to the TDC, but that we can't do that in the game. That's frustrating!

groomsie · 01-27-09, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Please visit the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread for some really cool 3/5 printable cards for the Dick O'Kane Method, the John P Cromwell Method and the Vector Analysis Method. Yes, I can assure you that it is just as frustrating to go from the American to the German Boat. I had to deficate on the poop deck until I could find out what the @#$#% they call the bathroom.

Interestingly, Nisgeis tells me that in the real American boat you could directly hook up the periscope bearing to the TDC, but that we can't do that in the game. That's frustrating!

RR, in looking at your cards I realize somehow I've made my "Cromwell" attack into the "vector" attack...they are similar, but the vector attack is more work to calculate and so when I'm in a hurry I tend to avoid it--the Cromwell attack as you lay out is simpler to execute than what I've been doing, so maybe now with the clarification these great aids have given me perhaps the "Cromwell" technique will become more utilized in my attacks. Many Thanks!!

AngronIsAngry · 01-27-09, 02:09 AM

I believe you forgot adjusting AoB according to lead angle. If you are missing only by a short distance that could be it.
While I don't know if 3:15 is the meter equivalent of the 3minruleofthumb for imperial, there is a Nomograph mod in meter out there too. Maybe that helps too, at least I hope it will.

Fish40 · 01-27-09, 07:03 AM

Also you need to do a couple of steps with the range wheel. First, manualy drag the wheel to read the maximum (I believe it's clockwise till it can't go any more). Then send this to the TDC. Next, set your AOB to 80 degrees port or starbord, and set the scope to the 10 degree lead angle; ie target approaching from the right, point scope at 10 degrees. Target approaching from the left, point scope at 350 degrees. When this is done, send to TDC again.

I use this method with great results. I have found that obtaining an accurate speed is critical with this method.

01-26-09, 09:51 PM	#1
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,366 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	How can I suck so much as SH4 when I am good at SH3? Ok clearly this has to be a case of operator error. I would greatly appreciate any advice. I have been playing SH3 (gwx+olc) for a while and I am pretty good at the manual targeting (80% realism). I have no problems with manual targeting with SH3. I put holes in the floaty things all the time. I recently dusted off Sh4 (1.4+ TM) at 79% realism and I can't hit a bull on the butt with a bass fiddle. Even setting up a sweet "Dick O'Kane" and shooting four fish I miss I have to be missing something real simple and stupid as that is the type of Captain I am. Lemme see if I understand SH4 manual targeting and perhaps one of your smart guys (including the ladies, of course) can help this landlubber. This is what I have been doing. Setting up a "Dick O'kane" approach. 1. Take several sightings to get speed and course plotted. I still use 3:15 as I have SH4 setup for metric. 2. Position sub appropriately for a 90 degree intercept at less than 1000 meters. Standard just like SH3. 3. Open the data entry wheel 3a select speed and rotate wheel to indicate speed of target in knots, Hit red triangle to send data to TDC 3b select AOB and set AoB to 90 degrees (yes making sure I have port and starboard correctly set [made that mistake way too often]). Hit red triangle to send data to TDC 4. Set periscope to 350 (for starboard approach) or 010 (for Port approach). Keep periscope stationary. 5. Set torpedo depth for all tubes 5a do nothing with PK 6. Open all torpedo doors 7. Wait for juicy parts of target to pass stationary periscope 8. Torpedoes Los! er I mean Fire torpedoes as juicy parts pass hairline. 9. See all torpedoes miss target What step am I missing? All I am doing is sending two pieces of data to the TDC. I am not doing anything with the range (one time I spun the range to the max). I only hit the red triangle twice (to enter speed and AoB). Do I have to activate anything else even if I am not using the PK? Am I missing something. I have set up perfect "O'kane" approaches about 5-7 times and always miss. In SH3 I never miss with a good setup. Help me before I defect back to the Kregsmarine. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-27-09, 10:17 AM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Please visit the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread for some really cool 3/5 printable cards for the Dick O'Kane Method, the John P Cromwell Method and the Vector Analysis Method. Yes, I can assure you that it is just as frustrating to go from the American to the German Boat. I had to deficate on the poop deck until I could find out what the @#$#% they call the bathroom. Interestingly, Nisgeis tells me that in the real American boat you could directly hook up the periscope bearing to the TDC, but that we can't do that in the game. That's frustrating! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-27-09, 02:09 AM	#7
AngronIsAngry Mate Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 53 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	I believe you forgot adjusting AoB according to lead angle. If you are missing only by a short distance that could be it. While I don't know if 3:15 is the meter equivalent of the 3minruleofthumb for imperial, there is a Nomograph mod in meter out there too. Maybe that helps too, at least I hope it will. __________________ "No Boom?" "No Boom, today. Maybe Boom tomorrow. Things always go Boom!"

01-27-09, 01:47 AM	#2
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	You procedure is just about ok, but you forgot one fundamental thing: In a Fleet boat the periscope is not tied to the TDC. US TDC does not update the gyro angle based on where the periscope is pointing, unlike its German counterpart, but based on either manual user input or PK. Sending range also sends bearing, and it's always a good habit to click the "Send to TDC" button twice whenever sending the range. In other words your procedure needs one step corrected. I would also do this before you set AOB, just in case, and also use the real AOB instead of 90. This AOB is of course only valid for 90 degree intercepts. 3b) Point the scope to the 350 or 10. Spin the range wheel to for example 1500 meters, hit "Send to TDC" twice. 4) Set AOB to 80 port or starboard, "Send to TDC"

01-27-09, 07:06 AM	#4
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	Platapus, if you haven't red this, it's all explained here: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu45I.H...%3ftopic=374.0

01-27-09, 07:03 AM	#8
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	Also you need to do a couple of steps with the range wheel. First, manualy drag the wheel to read the maximum (I believe it's clockwise till it can't go any more). Then send this to the TDC. Next, set your AOB to 80 degrees port or starbord, and set the scope to the 10 degree lead angle; ie target approaching from the right, point scope at 10 degrees. Target approaching from the left, point scope at 350 degrees. When this is done, send to TDC again. I use this method with great results. I have found that obtaining an accurate speed is critical with this method.