Microsoft 'Aces' studio to close..

SteamWake · 01-23-09, 02:24 PM

Gah... guess Trainsim 2 is on hold again

So close yet so far.

nikimcbee · 01-23-09, 02:51 PM

On the news, they said MS was laying of R&D people.

You'd think there are more useless people around there than R&D. (such has HR)

SteamWake · 01-23-09, 02:57 PM

Its the D in R & D that is of concearn.

Ill bet the execs arent taking any pay cuts.

But I read where Aces were directly and considerably impacted. Aces are the folks that brought us Flight Simulator and Train Simulator. Train Simulator 2 already like 4 years into development was scheduled for release "Holiday season of 09" (around december of 09). No adjustments, or postponements are officcial yet but I fear the worst. MSTS 2 is one of the few titles I was looking foward too.

I cannot find anywhere, other than internet blogs, an 'offocal' source how the changes will effect any of their products or planned products.

longam · 01-23-09, 03:03 PM

Dang, How many more delays...

There is nothing on the insider page so far.
http://www.tsinsider.com/

SteamWake · 01-23-09, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longam

Dang, How many more delays...

There is nothing on the insider page so far.
http://www.tsinsider.com/

Yea I checked there and trainsim.com and a few others. So far just a bunch of conjecture and a lot of 'dissapointment' with the occassional 'sky is falling'. Kind of like Subsim :rotfl:

Still I hold out hope, a tremdous amount of research, coding, and art had been accomplished and was left to believe it was nearing completion. Its hard to believe they would just stop at this point. But its Micro$oft so really nothing is hard to believe.

Zachstar · 01-23-09, 03:19 PM

If any of that team is fired there will be a perfect excuse for a delay and such there will be.

Microsoft is getting real stupid on this one. They did not touch their overseas departments but Aces? Ins't MSFS one of their most profitable game ventures outside of Halo?

Zachstar · 01-23-09, 05:02 PM

Confirmed BTW they are shuttering.

What a horrible horrible decision.

01-24-09, 04:45 AM

It's not only trainsim that will take a hit but Flightsim as well

I think it does imply a serious setback in Flightsimulator development.

Will FSX be the last version ? Nobody knows.

Will somebody else pick it up ?
Under the present economics I doubt that to happen soon.
Massive cuts are in progress in the entire IT industries all over the world.

Starting with a venture like this will involve a lot of risk for the buyer of the license ( if it is sold at all).
Not only is the technology much more evolved since the series started but also has the hardware.
Not a single version of FS could be played maxed out on then current hardware.
The computers always needed to catch up a year later.
Since we see a recession coming all over the world people will keep their money in their pockets and pay the more basic bills prior to paying for a new computer in the upcoming 3 years.
This will slowdown computer development as well as game development.
Afterall is the gaming industry one of the main drivers for new hardware development.
Even now (after the release in 2006) it's hard to play FSX maxed out on the current hardware.
It's a niche product, and the modding of FS will touch maybe 10% of the total number of users world wide.
90% are playing it right of the shelf and will never install any mod except for a servicepack.

In my humble opinion Flightsimulator will live on but it will be centered on the 2 versions that are available, FS9 and FSX.
No development activities are in progress for either 2 of them, making them finished products and the standards for the (at least) upcoming 3 years.
It will make the FS world a place where you use either FS9, FSX or both.

A new start will be A GOOD THING but also imply a setback for all add-on developers ( either freeware or payware) since they will have to reinvent the wheel on the coding for the new game.
So no additional aircraft, no airlines, no scenery, you name it.

Since a lot of developers didn't make the step towards FSX already I think that even less people are willing to make the same step towards a complete new environment.
In the end we will end up with less development from 3rd parties and less toys to play with for the community.

So does this decision impact the FS world ?
It certainly does, the FS world will become emptier in new versions.

I hope that the people that lost their job yesterday will be able to find something new in the upcoming times.
I also want to thank them for their motivation, their enthusiasm and their dedication towards a game series that lasted longer then any other pc game series.
FS will live on !

There will a lot side effects on this decission of MS, addon developers will also start to go down in a matter of time.

Zachstar · 01-24-09, 04:08 PM

A new version will come. I suspect that MS will sell what they have on it to EA or Ubisoft or someone willing to pay some millions.

But yes it will take atleast half a decade before something comes of it. FS9 and FSX are it for now.

I keep hearing this rumor that because of no new changes it will be a boon to addon developers. But this can't be because there isn't going to be a new generation because most of the young ones expect a new version every few years.

And yes it is hard currently on Vista atleast to max out the settings. I suspect tho that my HD 9670 will be able to do it easily tho on Windows 7. And then what about 3870 or a 4850's

One of the big devestating realizations for me is that this means no new MS Space Simulator. I had hoped that the new FS11 engine would allow atleast for Orbital travel. With the graphics and flight quality and weather of FSX this would have been awesome!

Oh well I guess the only thing to do now is improve Orbiter.

Skybird · 01-25-09, 08:13 AM

I tend to see some positive for the FS community in this developement. I can'T say whether or not the loss of TS2 really is a loss, since there is a new train sim out for almost a year now, but the number of addons or announcement for addons still is low - one is wondering if this new version really can get the popularity of the first TS.

On FS, I have seen quite some famous or wellknown names in the German Fs communities disappearing since FSX was released. Many of them I rememberhaving lend a helpful hand and contributed addons since FS95. Some of them tried with FSX and then left, or moved back to FS9. It's not the same thing anymore in and with the community. Devloping addons at the FSX standard has become an incredibly slow and painful process. It necessarily slows down things.

The developement interval for new versions of FS was around 2-3 years, but this simply is too little time now for developers to unfold the rhich display of addons for the latest version anymore. Plus the fact that many, if not all, of the FSX-conversions of the really complex cockpit packages available lack the technical stability of their FS9 pendants, one year after release still feature many bugs and problems and with the technically demanding FSX platform give a less stable experience than it was the case with the very stable FS8 and FS9 versions. Series of addons, like multi-parts landscape packages, have become unlikely to ever be completely released for one FS version alone anymore, but more likely will be released in parts only for any given platform, spreading their full set of titles over two or even three versions, this already showed to become a problem with FS8.

What is needed is more years passing between FS versions indeed. some years ago, I even wrote a (poetic, reflective) German essay on that for a German FS-forum, FlightXpress. For the community, this possible delay if not interruption of the FS franchise - imo is the bst thing that could have happened. It gives us the time needed to close up with things again. And to enjoy the experience for longer, and learn it to greater depth again than it is possible right now.

One word for Zachstar. The technology of FS is such that even the FS9 version already becomes unstable if you use it with maximum settings on today's hardware, that is becasue of an internal maximum memory limit that can be avoide donly at the pürice of sacrificing certain features and compatabilities with certain Addons, for example AES. FS9, seen nthat way, already was designed with options that even in a far away future could not be fully used without this price to pay. People flying complex airliner modules to the addon scneery of Heathrow can sing a song of this. Other locations where these internal contradictions in options design becomes evident, are addon versions of Paris CDG, and in general complex mesh locations with high object density and then medium to high traffic and traffic addons. what it all means: I do not hold my breath for ever being able to fly FSX at maxed out details with airport scenery and a super-complex airliner module with complex cockpit simulation on a future hardware platform. It seems that internal software contradictions are - probably unvoluntarily - forming barriers here that limit the ammount to which better hardware necessarily result in freedom to further max out detail settings. FS9 beyond a certain point simply loses stability. and I've read many reports until today that it is not different with FSX.

It's bad for the employees, of course. But seeing it from a flightsimmer's perspective missing the old (and better) community scene of past years, I celebrate the break we have been given to catch a breath and truly en joy in depth what we already have been given. I really believe it is the best thing that could have happened to us. And my own example gives proof to that i am serious: I am still flying FS9, and went on expanding the installation with addons while FSX already had been out for longer time. And quite some people meanwhile have moved back from FSX to FS9 as well, especially those IFR- and airliner-flyers.

SteamWake · 01-25-09, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I tend to see some positive for the FS community in this developement. I can'T say whether or not the loss of TS2 really is a loss, since there is a new train sim out for almost a year now, but the number of addons or announcement for addons still is low - one is wondering if this new version really can get the popularity of the first TS.

I can answer this. The 'other' trainsim while the best thing we have at the moment is full of bugs, errors and other issues. One of the reasons you dont see many add ons is because the damn thing is so hard to work with.

The original MSTS is definaly long in the tooth with poor graphics and has its issues as well.

I think you will find the loss of MSTS2 a huge one to the train simming community.

Skybird · 01-25-09, 11:50 AM

Well, trainSimmers get some comfort from the new branch of subway simulations that I already had linked to in the flightsim forum. "The Path" in New York already is out,

http://www.aerosoft.com/cgi-local/re...i?showd,,50176

the second part, "Linie U7" (in Berlin), is about to be released.

http://www.world-of-subways.com/index.php?id=211&L=1

Having been user of Line U9 and U7 in Berlin for ten years, the latter title definitely was made with me in mind!

Sonarman · 01-26-09, 07:58 AM

Grrrrr, the first sign of downturn and they cancel everything. So much for the company that claims it will "revitalise PC gaming". To hell with the "games for windows" & "games for windows live" initiatives, they are probably just trying to increase the price of PC software to console levels and take a licensing cut from every PC game release anyway.

longam · 01-26-09, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I tend to see some positive for the FS community in this developement. I can'T say whether or not the loss of TS2 really is a loss, since there is a new train sim out for almost a year now, but the number of addons or announcement for addons still is low - one is wondering if this new version really can get the popularity of the first TS.

I can answer this. The 'other' trainsim while the best thing we have at the moment is full of bugs, errors and other issues. One of the reasons you dont see many add ons is because the damn thing is so hard to work with.

The original MSTS is definaly long in the tooth with poor graphics and has its issues as well.

I think you will find the loss of MSTS2 a huge one to the train simming community.

I have the Trainz 2006 sim and it was ok but buggy like you said, but the constant search and download got old real quick. It looks like they released a new version 2009

http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/default.htm

And anyone ever try Rail Simulator?

http://www.railsimulator.com/

Skybird · 01-26-09, 09:05 AM

In fact, Rail Simulator is what was on my mind when mentioning "that different train sim", not Trainz. I had the first version of Trainz, and was unimpressed.

01-23-09, 02:24 PM	#1
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Microsoft 'Aces' studio to close.. Gah... guess Trainsim 2 is on hold again So close yet so far.

01-23-09, 02:51 PM	#2
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	On the news, they said MS was laying of R&D people. You'd think there are more useless people around there than R&D. (such has HR) __________________

01-23-09, 03:19 PM	#6
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	If any of that team is fired there will be a perfect excuse for a delay and such there will be. Microsoft is getting real stupid on this one. They did not touch their overseas departments but Aces? Ins't MSFS one of their most profitable game ventures outside of Halo? __________________

01-23-09, 05:02 PM	#7
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Confirmed BTW they are shuttering. What a horrible horrible decision. __________________

01-24-09, 04:08 PM	#9
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	A new version will come. I suspect that MS will sell what they have on it to EA or Ubisoft or someone willing to pay some millions. But yes it will take atleast half a decade before something comes of it. FS9 and FSX are it for now. I keep hearing this rumor that because of no new changes it will be a boon to addon developers. But this can't be because there isn't going to be a new generation because most of the young ones expect a new version every few years. And yes it is hard currently on Vista atleast to max out the settings. I suspect tho that my HD 9670 will be able to do it easily tho on Windows 7. And then what about 3870 or a 4850's One of the big devestating realizations for me is that this means no new MS Space Simulator. I had hoped that the new FS11 engine would allow atleast for Orbital travel. With the graphics and flight quality and weather of FSX this would have been awesome! Oh well I guess the only thing to do now is improve Orbiter. __________________

01-23-09, 02:57 PM	#3
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Its the D in R & D that is of concearn. Ill bet the execs arent taking any pay cuts. But I read where Aces were directly and considerably impacted. Aces are the folks that brought us Flight Simulator and Train Simulator. Train Simulator 2 already like 4 years into development was scheduled for release "Holiday season of 09" (around december of 09). No adjustments, or postponements are officcial yet but I fear the worst. MSTS 2 is one of the few titles I was looking foward too. I cannot find anywhere, other than internet blogs, an 'offocal' source how the changes will effect any of their products or planned products.

01-23-09, 03:03 PM	#4
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Dang, How many more delays... There is nothing on the insider page so far. http://www.tsinsider.com/

01-24-09, 04:45 AM	#8
f14driver Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	It's not only trainsim that will take a hit but Flightsim as well I think it does imply a serious setback in Flightsimulator development. Will FSX be the last version ? Nobody knows. Will somebody else pick it up ? Under the present economics I doubt that to happen soon. Massive cuts are in progress in the entire IT industries all over the world. Starting with a venture like this will involve a lot of risk for the buyer of the license ( if it is sold at all). Not only is the technology much more evolved since the series started but also has the hardware. Not a single version of FS could be played maxed out on then current hardware. The computers always needed to catch up a year later. Since we see a recession coming all over the world people will keep their money in their pockets and pay the more basic bills prior to paying for a new computer in the upcoming 3 years. This will slowdown computer development as well as game development. Afterall is the gaming industry one of the main drivers for new hardware development. Even now (after the release in 2006) it's hard to play FSX maxed out on the current hardware. It's a niche product, and the modding of FS will touch maybe 10% of the total number of users world wide. 90% are playing it right of the shelf and will never install any mod except for a servicepack. In my humble opinion Flightsimulator will live on but it will be centered on the 2 versions that are available, FS9 and FSX. No development activities are in progress for either 2 of them, making them finished products and the standards for the (at least) upcoming 3 years. It will make the FS world a place where you use either FS9, FSX or both. A new start will be A GOOD THING but also imply a setback for all add-on developers ( either freeware or payware) since they will have to reinvent the wheel on the coding for the new game. So no additional aircraft, no airlines, no scenery, you name it. Since a lot of developers didn't make the step towards FSX already I think that even less people are willing to make the same step towards a complete new environment. In the end we will end up with less development from 3rd parties and less toys to play with for the community. So does this decision impact the FS world ? It certainly does, the FS world will become emptier in new versions. I hope that the people that lost their job yesterday will be able to find something new in the upcoming times. I also want to thank them for their motivation, their enthusiasm and their dedication towards a game series that lasted longer then any other pc game series. FS will live on ! There will a lot side effects on this decission of MS, addon developers will also start to go down in a matter of time.

01-25-09, 08:13 AM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,604 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I tend to see some positive for the FS community in this developement. I can'T say whether or not the loss of TS2 really is a loss, since there is a new train sim out for almost a year now, but the number of addons or announcement for addons still is low - one is wondering if this new version really can get the popularity of the first TS. On FS, I have seen quite some famous or wellknown names in the German Fs communities disappearing since FSX was released. Many of them I rememberhaving lend a helpful hand and contributed addons since FS95. Some of them tried with FSX and then left, or moved back to FS9. It's not the same thing anymore in and with the community. Devloping addons at the FSX standard has become an incredibly slow and painful process. It necessarily slows down things. The developement interval for new versions of FS was around 2-3 years, but this simply is too little time now for developers to unfold the rhich display of addons for the latest version anymore. Plus the fact that many, if not all, of the FSX-conversions of the really complex cockpit packages available lack the technical stability of their FS9 pendants, one year after release still feature many bugs and problems and with the technically demanding FSX platform give a less stable experience than it was the case with the very stable FS8 and FS9 versions. Series of addons, like multi-parts landscape packages, have become unlikely to ever be completely released for one FS version alone anymore, but more likely will be released in parts only for any given platform, spreading their full set of titles over two or even three versions, this already showed to become a problem with FS8. What is needed is more years passing between FS versions indeed. some years ago, I even wrote a (poetic, reflective) German essay on that for a German FS-forum, FlightXpress. For the community, this possible delay if not interruption of the FS franchise - imo is the bst thing that could have happened. It gives us the time needed to close up with things again. And to enjoy the experience for longer, and learn it to greater depth again than it is possible right now. One word for Zachstar. The technology of FS is such that even the FS9 version already becomes unstable if you use it with maximum settings on today's hardware, that is becasue of an internal maximum memory limit that can be avoide donly at the pürice of sacrificing certain features and compatabilities with certain Addons, for example AES. FS9, seen nthat way, already was designed with options that even in a far away future could not be fully used without this price to pay. People flying complex airliner modules to the addon scneery of Heathrow can sing a song of this. Other locations where these internal contradictions in options design becomes evident, are addon versions of Paris CDG, and in general complex mesh locations with high object density and then medium to high traffic and traffic addons. what it all means: I do not hold my breath for ever being able to fly FSX at maxed out details with airport scenery and a super-complex airliner module with complex cockpit simulation on a future hardware platform. It seems that internal software contradictions are - probably unvoluntarily - forming barriers here that limit the ammount to which better hardware necessarily result in freedom to further max out detail settings. FS9 beyond a certain point simply loses stability. and I've read many reports until today that it is not different with FSX. It's bad for the employees, of course. But seeing it from a flightsimmer's perspective missing the old (and better) community scene of past years, I celebrate the break we have been given to catch a breath and truly en joy in depth what we already have been given. I really believe it is the best thing that could have happened to us. And my own example gives proof to that i am serious: I am still flying FS9, and went on expanding the installation with addons while FSX already had been out for longer time. And quite some people meanwhile have moved back from FSX to FS9 as well, especially those IFR- and airliner-flyers. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-25-09, 11:50 AM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,604 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Well, trainSimmers get some comfort from the new branch of subway simulations that I already had linked to in the flightsim forum. "The Path" in New York already is out, http://www.aerosoft.com/cgi-local/re...i?showd,,50176 the second part, "Linie U7" (in Berlin), is about to be released. http://www.world-of-subways.com/index.php?id=211&L=1 Having been user of Line U9 and U7 in Berlin for ten years, the latter title definitely was made with me in mind! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-26-09, 07:58 AM	#13
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,392 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	Grrrrr, the first sign of downturn and they cancel everything. So much for the company that claims it will "revitalise PC gaming". To hell with the "games for windows" & "games for windows live" initiatives, they are probably just trying to increase the price of PC software to console levels and take a licensing cut from every PC game release anyway. __________________ "The action is simulated...the excitement is real!" Microprose Simulation Software.

01-26-09, 09:05 AM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,604 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	In fact, Rail Simulator is what was on my mind when mentioning "that different train sim", not Trainz. I had the first version of Trainz, and was unimpressed. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.