Rain storm issue

I'm goin' down · 12-05-08, 04:52 PM

It was raining. Extremely low visibility. My sonar man picked up a convoy. Due to the number of sonar contacts, it was a mid-size or large convoy. However, silouettes of the ships did not appear until they were within 1,000 yards, just about the time I could see them. I did see some lights in the mist when they were slightly further away. I could not use sonar only to attack because I could not get a fix on a single contact. I could not use the Dick O'Kane technique because I could not spot the ships far enough in advance to set up for a broadside shot. I tried to quickly set up for manual targeting by identifying the targets when they appeared out of the mist - setting the AOB, guessing at the target's speed, and using the SCAF mod to get the target's aspect ratio and range, but these efforts proved inacurrate because I did not have sufficient time to prepare. Thus, I missed two shots at a freighter from my aft torpedoes, and held fire on a second ship because it passed me at 90 degrees port and was out of gyro angle range of the forward torpedoes, and my aft torpedoes were in the process of reloading. Is there any technique that you can apply when visibiltiy is poor, the Navigation and Attack Maps do not pick up the target's silouette because of weather conditions until the target is almost on top of you, and setting up for a classic broadside is not possible? If it had been a solo freighter, the sonar attack would have been possible, but this was a convoy of ships, where getting a fix on a single ship (other than perhaps the lead destroyer) is next to impossible.

Soundman · 12-05-08, 08:09 PM

I just finished a similar scenario, terrible visibility AND at night, but with a single contact. The boat was only visible within about 100 yds. The boat wound up to be a single small freighter. I did manage to put it under with sonar only, but it is tough to update the info fast enough to keep the solution accurate. Remember, in real life, there was more than one person doing all the work. In this game you wear all the hats so to speak. In those conditions, pulling off a successful shot is very rewarding.

Fish40 · 12-05-08, 09:16 PM

Been there, Done that!

Very frustrating to say the least. I feel your pain!

Aramike · 12-06-08, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundman

I just finished a similar scenario, terrible visibility AND at night, but with a single contact. The boat was only visible within about 100 yds. The boat wound up to be a single small freighter. I did manage to put it under with sonar only, but it is tough to update the info fast enough to keep the solution accurate. Remember, in real life, there was more than one person doing all the work. In this game you wear all the hats so to speak. In those conditions, pulling off a successful shot is very rewarding.

That's why I'm content to leave auto-targetting on. While at some point I'm sure I'm going to want to learn how to do all the work manually, it almost seems somewhat realistic to me that the crew would account for something...

Sandman_28054 · 12-06-08, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

It was raining. Extremely low visibility. My sonar man picked up a convoy. Due to the number of sonar contacts, it was a mid-size or large convoy. However, silouettes of the ships did not appear until they were within 1,000 yards, just about the time I could see them. I did see some lights in the mist when they were slightly further away. I could not use sonar only to attack because I could not get a fix on a single contact. I could not use the Dick O'Kane technique because I could not spot the ships far enough in advance to set up for a broadside shot. I tried to quickly set up for manual targeting by identifying the targets when they appeared out of the mist - setting the AOB, guessing at the target's speed, and using the SCAF mod to get the target's aspect ratio and range, but these efforts proved inacurrate because I did not have sufficient time to prepare. Thus, I missed two shots at a freighter from my aft torpedoes, and held fire on a second ship because it passed me at 90 degrees port and was out of gyro angle range of the forward torpedoes, and my aft torpedoes were in the process of reloading. Is there any technique that you can apply when visibiltiy is poor, the Navigation and Attack Maps do not pick up the target's silouette because of weather conditions until the target is almost on top of you, and setting up for a classic broadside is not possible? If it had been a solo freighter, the sonar attack would have been possible, but this was a convoy of ships, where getting a fix on a single ship (other than perhaps the lead destroyer) is next to impossible.

What kind of boat are you in?

I am piloting a Gato class sub, upgraded to the surface search radar.

I find that using the surface search radar allows me to identify what kind of target it is, heading, and speed.

This allows me to plot a course ahead of the ships, and wait. Like a spider in a web.

I'm goin' down · 12-06-08, 11:14 AM

how do you upgrade to surface search radar? I have not ever seen or used it. I have been sailing a Porpoise class boat.

pythos · 12-06-08, 11:20 AM

Storms happened.

Subs at times were unable to sink ships due to storms or pea soup fog.

The hydrophone/sonar method worked only a skant few times, and often it was just sheer luck.

Be warned, you may not be able to see the other ship, but some of them (the ones with guns) can and will see you before you see them in most instances, and somehow gain pinpoint accuracy and plant a shall right onto your deck. This is a bug, but it is there.

I leave the fog attacks to the arcade gamers out there

I'm goin' down · 12-06-08, 11:40 AM

When there is a single target, you can use sonar to track it, and the Dick O'Kane technique to shoot and sink it. I sunk a large modern split freighter in a rain storm at night with zero visibilty using sonar only. It was so nasty out, I could not see the target when I was surfaced. I never saw it until the torpedoes made impact, and then I saw a small flashes of light and heard the impacts. I intended to sink it with my deck gun, and I followed the fire started by the explosions from the torpedoes for about 30 seconds using the deck gun's target magnifcation, and then it faded into the night. I could not tell if it sank. I searched for 15 minutes to find it, and the captain's log did not record a kill. Then, all of sudden, the event camera switched on, and I saw its flag go under the water. All that for a 30 second visual!! (Wah!) See Rockin Robbins tutorial on sonar for the technique if you have not mastered it already. These attacks take a long time to execute, so have some Mai Tai's by your side, as that is part of RR's tutorial and appear to be indispensible to the attack technique.

SteamWake · 12-06-08, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

That's why I'm content to leave auto-targetting on. While at some point I'm sure I'm going to want to learn how to do all the work manually, it almost seems somewhat realistic to me that the crew would account for something...

Auto targeting will not help you in these type of conditions. If you cannot see it through the uzo or a scope you cannot 'auto target' it. By the time you can see it you are too close for the torpedo to arm.

Munchausen · 12-06-08, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

how do you upgrade to surface search radar? I have not ever seen or used it. I have been sailing a Porpoise class boat.

Surface radar won't be available to you until either late 1942 or early 1943 ... or maybe later (I'm not there yet ... in an older Gato class but without radar). Happily, when you finally get it, it changes the whole ball game (in your favor).

breadcatcher101 · 12-06-08, 03:49 PM

Next time I am in weather like that I am going to try to "aim with the boat" so to speak. The range would be short enough, just a quick set up and fire.

I'm goin' down · 12-06-08, 04:45 PM

Manchausen, charging in like the Lone Ranger and shouting "Hi Ho Silver, Away," (or like Soupy Sales who said holding up his ring and index fingers, "The index finger is for my dog, Whitefang, my ring finger is for my dog Blacktooth," Holding up his middle finger, he looks at the cameraman and smirks, "And this finger is for the sponsor." ) comes to rescue once again!

Rockin Robbins · 12-06-08, 06:30 PM

Soupy Sales, holy cow, talk about a regional and time-specific allusion! My head hurts...

Well, all that fake information that a radar could never give you is why we made TMOplot. Getting real close there!

The difficulty of a no-peek shot, especially sonar only, is why it is the single most satisfying kill in Silent Hunter 4. A radar only shot with TMOplot or TMO, since you don't get automatic course and speed out of the clairvoyant radar, is almost equally challenging, but has fewer measurement anomolies, so you don't sweat as much. The sonar only method is pure terror to use and makes you look really ridiculous to your wife when you're whooping, punching your fist in the air and indian war dancing around the room after multiple hits.

The only information you should get out of your radar or sonar is bearing and range. Real radar would give some impression of a large or small target, but a large contact could also be multiple targets, so you were still guessing to some degree.

Munchausen · 12-07-08, 11:42 AM

:hmm: Middle finger? No wonder Soupy got kicked off the air. Then, on the other hand ... I have five fingers.

Soundman · 12-07-08, 06:48 PM

[The sonar only method is pure terror to use and makes you look really ridiculous to your wife when you're whooping, punching your fist in the air and indian war dancing around the room after multiple hits.]

HEHe ! :rotfl: Yes, I can relate.....I've let out many a loud "Woo Hoo" after a good successful stalking with a tough scenario.

12-05-08, 04:52 PM	#1
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	Rain storm issue It was raining. Extremely low visibility. My sonar man picked up a convoy. Due to the number of sonar contacts, it was a mid-size or large convoy. However, silouettes of the ships did not appear until they were within 1,000 yards, just about the time I could see them. I did see some lights in the mist when they were slightly further away. I could not use sonar only to attack because I could not get a fix on a single contact. I could not use the Dick O'Kane technique because I could not spot the ships far enough in advance to set up for a broadside shot. I tried to quickly set up for manual targeting by identifying the targets when they appeared out of the mist - setting the AOB, guessing at the target's speed, and using the SCAF mod to get the target's aspect ratio and range, but these efforts proved inacurrate because I did not have sufficient time to prepare. Thus, I missed two shots at a freighter from my aft torpedoes, and held fire on a second ship because it passed me at 90 degrees port and was out of gyro angle range of the forward torpedoes, and my aft torpedoes were in the process of reloading. Is there any technique that you can apply when visibiltiy is poor, the Navigation and Attack Maps do not pick up the target's silouette because of weather conditions until the target is almost on top of you, and setting up for a classic broadside is not possible? If it had been a solo freighter, the sonar attack would have been possible, but this was a convoy of ships, where getting a fix on a single ship (other than perhaps the lead destroyer) is next to impossible. Last edited by I'm goin' down; 12-05-08 at 05:27 PM.

12-05-08, 09:16 PM	#3
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	Been there, Done that! Very frustrating to say the least. I feel your pain! Last edited by Fish40; 12-05-08 at 09:17 PM.

12-06-08, 11:14 AM	#6
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	surface search radar? What is that? how do you upgrade to surface search radar? I have not ever seen or used it. I have been sailing a Porpoise class boat.

12-06-08, 11:20 AM	#7
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	But is this realistic Storms happened. Subs at times were unable to sink ships due to storms or pea soup fog. The hydrophone/sonar method worked only a skant few times, and often it was just sheer luck. Be warned, you may not be able to see the other ship, but some of them (the ones with guns) can and will see you before you see them in most instances, and somehow gain pinpoint accuracy and plant a shall right onto your deck. This is a bug, but it is there. I leave the fog attacks to the arcade gamers out there

12-06-08, 11:40 AM	#8
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	sonar solves the "I cannot see it" problem" When there is a single target, you can use sonar to track it, and the Dick O'Kane technique to shoot and sink it. I sunk a large modern split freighter in a rain storm at night with zero visibilty using sonar only. It was so nasty out, I could not see the target when I was surfaced. I never saw it until the torpedoes made impact, and then I saw a small flashes of light and heard the impacts. I intended to sink it with my deck gun, and I followed the fire started by the explosions from the torpedoes for about 30 seconds using the deck gun's target magnifcation, and then it faded into the night. I could not tell if it sank. I searched for 15 minutes to find it, and the captain's log did not record a kill. Then, all of sudden, the event camera switched on, and I saw its flag go under the water. All that for a 30 second visual!! (Wah!) See Rockin Robbins tutorial on sonar for the technique if you have not mastered it already. These attacks take a long time to execute, so have some Mai Tai's by your side, as that is part of RR's tutorial and appear to be indispensible to the attack technique. Last edited by I'm goin' down; 12-06-08 at 11:42 AM.

12-05-08, 08:09 PM	#2
Soundman Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 617 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	I just finished a similar scenario, terrible visibility AND at night, but with a single contact. The boat was only visible within about 100 yds. The boat wound up to be a single small freighter. I did manage to put it under with sonar only, but it is tough to update the info fast enough to keep the solution accurate. Remember, in real life, there was more than one person doing all the work. In this game you wear all the hats so to speak. In those conditions, pulling off a successful shot is very rewarding.

12-06-08, 03:49 PM	#11
breadcatcher101 Captain Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 546 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Next time I am in weather like that I am going to try to "aim with the boat" so to speak. The range would be short enough, just a quick set up and fire.

12-06-08, 04:45 PM	#12
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	manchausn comes to the rescue Manchausen, charging in like the Lone Ranger and shouting "Hi Ho Silver, Away," (or like Soupy Sales who said holding up his ring and index fingers, "The index finger is for my dog, Whitefang, my ring finger is for my dog Blacktooth," Holding up his middle finger, he looks at the cameraman and smirks, "And this finger is for the sponsor." ) comes to rescue once again!

12-06-08, 06:30 PM	#13
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Soupy Sales, holy cow, talk about a regional and time-specific allusion! My head hurts... Well, all that fake information that a radar could never give you is why we made TMOplot. Getting real close there! The difficulty of a no-peek shot, especially sonar only, is why it is the single most satisfying kill in Silent Hunter 4. A radar only shot with TMOplot or TMO, since you don't get automatic course and speed out of the clairvoyant radar, is almost equally challenging, but has fewer measurement anomolies, so you don't sweat as much. The sonar only method is pure terror to use and makes you look really ridiculous to your wife when you're whooping, punching your fist in the air and indian war dancing around the room after multiple hits. The only information you should get out of your radar or sonar is bearing and range. Real radar would give some impression of a large or small target, but a large contact could also be multiple targets, so you were still guessing to some degree. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS Last edited by Rockin Robbins; 12-06-08 at 06:32 PM.

12-07-08, 11:42 AM	#14
Munchausen Commodore Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 608 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	:hmm: Middle finger? No wonder Soupy got kicked off the air. Then, on the other hand ... I have five fingers.

12-07-08, 06:48 PM	#15
Soundman Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 617 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	[The sonar only method is pure terror to use and makes you look really ridiculous to your wife when you're whooping, punching your fist in the air and indian war dancing around the room after multiple hits.] HEHe ! :rotfl: Yes, I can relate.....I've let out many a loud "Woo Hoo" after a good successful stalking with a tough scenario.