DD more skilled in SH3?

Fattysbox · 10-13-08, 12:31 PM

Hi All!

First post since my SH3 days... Just bought the game (V1.5, no mods added, yet)

My question:

Are DEs in SH3 more skilled than the DEs in SH4?

So, I just started my career in 1941, and yes I know the war is early and the DEs get more adept as the war goes on. However in my experience with SH3, the DEs seemed more tenacious. They wouldn't just circle in one spot for hours searching aimlessly... Also there was no thermal layer (at least in vanilla) that was clearly announced and was sufficient for ASDIC avoidance.

My experience last night (which was awesome BTW)...

I'm steaming along in the South China Sea and my sonar man reports a merchant contact. Come up to the bridge and there is dricing rainstorm, kudos to the effects (much better than SH4). I keep searching in vain through squalls for the contact, but no luck. My sonarman does not pick any sounds of escorts (they were in single file, merchant screws obscuring the DE, they were 90 off my starboard bow). I'm peering through binoculars, all of a sudden the DE lights me up about 600 yards!!

Crash dive, but during that time, at least 5 rounds from his main gun sail past me and he stays at 9 knots (i.e. not ramming). At 80 ft. passes over me - no DCs... I thought I was done for. Ten minutes later, and while I'm at least 1000 yards away - they drop DCs.

So far my experiences have been that the DEs dont have a clue where you are if you escape on proper time.

From what I remember in SH3, even in the happy time - the DEs gave you a run for your money.

Guess I need to do 2 things:

1) Get more experience and don't do stupid things like run into DEs during rain squalls :hmm:

2) Wait for DEs to get better during the war...

Any comments would be great!

SteamWake · 10-13-08, 12:54 PM

Ive experienced all kinds of 'skill levels' from pickets and escorts, from brain dead targets waiting to be sunk, to uber elite that you couldent shake for anything. The elites can find you no matter the situation evidently and drop those cans right up your stern.

So... yea some of the DD's DE's in SH4 are kind of stupid, others are not. You got lucky

ReallyDedPoet · 10-13-08, 01:33 PM

Mods make a big difference here

Trigger Maru, RFB, others, pick one and you
will notice the AI is a little nastier.

RDP

Fattysbox · 10-13-08, 01:49 PM

Interedting! Its good to know that there are some challanging scenarios to face

Rockin Robbins · 10-13-08, 02:10 PM

Run the Bungo Pete mission in Trigger Maru. You'll PRAY for SH3 DDs. The only way to beat him is to kill him.

Orion2012 · 10-13-08, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Run the Bungo Pete mission in Trigger Maru. You'll PRAY for SH3 DDs. The only way to beat him is to kill him.

Whenever I think Bungo Pete I'm reminded of the Doom difficulty screen

YOU WILL NOT SURVIVE

Task Force · 10-13-08, 07:59 PM

I think of bungo pete as Torpedo bait.

To bad he is not in RFB.

joegrundman · 10-13-08, 08:41 PM

AFAIK the AI "engine" for DDs is identical in SH3 and SH4, and SH4 can be set to the same levels as SH3 or any other setting from deaf, blind and dumb to know your exact position and hit every time

It's up the mods and the programmers to set it how they want to best represent how they feel DD capabilities should be, which in many cases is an attempt to simulate a historical feel

The fact was that Japanese ASW capablities were not as good or as comprehensive as allied capabilities in any given year, and most mods incorporate this fact.

Bungo Pete is set to a very high level, which is maybe fictional, but still I understand that the quality of Japanese ASW DDs varied enormously depending on the skill and tenacity of the captain, and some were extemely tenacious.

Lexandro · 10-13-08, 10:00 PM

I find the DD's in SH4 are largely dependent on you making a noise or showing your scope to much to even notice your infiltration. After a target has been sunk I always use its general position as a sound screen while it breaks up. I usually dont fire till im right up close (1000y or less) with any target, and the position keeper for the US boats is invaluable for this.

The only real trouble is when you start your attack from an unfavourable position, or attempting to retreat after the attack. Thats why I always keep a fish or two ready for that DD that gets the bit between its teeth and tries to run you to ground. Fire, dive, run silent & deep and zig zag in the hope that the torps hit the target and get the hell outa dodge.

At least thats in my experience

kiwi_2005 · 10-13-08, 11:41 PM

Trigger Maru DDs aint thick. I think all the big mods have done the same by making the DDs more elite. Ive ran OM monsoon, TM and FOTRS mods to name a few and the DDs dont mess around in hunting you.

The Stock SH4 they are pussies!

10-13-08, 12:31 PM	#1
Fattysbox Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Windy City Posts: 130 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	DD more skilled in SH3? Hi All! First post since my SH3 days... Just bought the game (V1.5, no mods added, yet) My question: Are DEs in SH3 more skilled than the DEs in SH4? So, I just started my career in 1941, and yes I know the war is early and the DEs get more adept as the war goes on. However in my experience with SH3, the DEs seemed more tenacious. They wouldn't just circle in one spot for hours searching aimlessly... Also there was no thermal layer (at least in vanilla) that was clearly announced and was sufficient for ASDIC avoidance. My experience last night (which was awesome BTW)... I'm steaming along in the South China Sea and my sonar man reports a merchant contact. Come up to the bridge and there is dricing rainstorm, kudos to the effects (much better than SH4). I keep searching in vain through squalls for the contact, but no luck. My sonarman does not pick any sounds of escorts (they were in single file, merchant screws obscuring the DE, they were 90 off my starboard bow). I'm peering through binoculars, all of a sudden the DE lights me up about 600 yards!! Crash dive, but during that time, at least 5 rounds from his main gun sail past me and he stays at 9 knots (i.e. not ramming). At 80 ft. passes over me - no DCs... I thought I was done for. Ten minutes later, and while I'm at least 1000 yards away - they drop DCs. So far my experiences have been that the DEs dont have a clue where you are if you escape on proper time. From what I remember in SH3, even in the happy time - the DEs gave you a run for your money. Guess I need to do 2 things: 1) Get more experience and don't do stupid things like run into DEs during rain squalls :hmm: 2) Wait for DEs to get better during the war... Any comments would be great!

10-13-08, 01:33 PM	#3
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,886 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Mods make a big difference here Trigger Maru, RFB, others, pick one and you will notice the AI is a little nastier. RDP __________________ Back in the Day

10-13-08, 02:10 PM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Run the Bungo Pete mission in Trigger Maru. You'll PRAY for SH3 DDs. The only way to beat him is to kill him. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

10-13-08, 07:59 PM	#7
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I think of bungo pete as Torpedo bait. To bad he is not in RFB. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

10-13-08, 08:41 PM	#8
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	AFAIK the AI "engine" for DDs is identical in SH3 and SH4, and SH4 can be set to the same levels as SH3 or any other setting from deaf, blind and dumb to know your exact position and hit every time It's up the mods and the programmers to set it how they want to best represent how they feel DD capabilities should be, which in many cases is an attempt to simulate a historical feel The fact was that Japanese ASW capablities were not as good or as comprehensive as allied capabilities in any given year, and most mods incorporate this fact. Bungo Pete is set to a very high level, which is maybe fictional, but still I understand that the quality of Japanese ASW DDs varied enormously depending on the skill and tenacity of the captain, and some were extemely tenacious. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

10-13-08, 12:54 PM	#2
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ive experienced all kinds of 'skill levels' from pickets and escorts, from brain dead targets waiting to be sunk, to uber elite that you couldent shake for anything. The elites can find you no matter the situation evidently and drop those cans right up your stern. So... yea some of the DD's DE's in SH4 are kind of stupid, others are not. You got lucky

10-13-08, 01:49 PM	#4
Fattysbox Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Windy City Posts: 130 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Interedting! Its good to know that there are some challanging scenarios to face

10-13-08, 10:00 PM	#9
Lexandro Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: REDACTED Posts: 172 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	I find the DD's in SH4 are largely dependent on you making a noise or showing your scope to much to even notice your infiltration. After a target has been sunk I always use its general position as a sound screen while it breaks up. I usually dont fire till im right up close (1000y or less) with any target, and the position keeper for the US boats is invaluable for this. The only real trouble is when you start your attack from an unfavourable position, or attempting to retreat after the attack. Thats why I always keep a fish or two ready for that DD that gets the bit between its teeth and tries to run you to ground. Fire, dive, run silent & deep and zig zag in the hope that the torps hit the target and get the hell outa dodge. At least thats in my experience

10-13-08, 11:41 PM	#10
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	Trigger Maru DDs aint thick. I think all the big mods have done the same by making the DDs more elite. Ive ran OM monsoon, TM and FOTRS mods to name a few and the DDs dont mess around in hunting you. The Stock SH4 they are pussies! __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.