[Req] Community bug fix mod?

Lexandro · 10-03-08, 07:12 AM

Ive noticed that a lot of you enterprising people have fixed small issues with the stock game in a few different mods. Most of these fixes though tend to be intergrated with much more extensive mods. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to have just the bug fixes in a single seperate mod for those that dont want to fully mod the game.

Your thoughts?

10-03-08, 10:32 AM

yes it is a good idea and many of us try to remind modders as much as we can that stand alone small mods are needed to go along side larger grouped changes that make up the bigger mods.

i take this as my guide when i mod so that everything i do is stand alone, this way you collect the shopping list of what you like and end up with only the changes you want. then you can simply copy the mods into one folder and have one mod that does just the things you want and you dont need to install a group of mods to do the same thing.

now if you are refering to "fixes" that correct problems and dont just change stuff for the sake of changing or improving it then that gets a little more difficult because some fixes require other changes to make them work or act correctly in the game. then there is the question of what is a fix as far as the way the game works vs a fix to correct non realistic settings. much debate on that last one.

Lexandro · 10-03-08, 12:38 PM

Well I mean "fixes" purely as broken aspects of the game, such as the battery issue, photo missions fix, missing commands (eg; weather report) etc. Changes other than simple pure game fixes such as major historical based fixes I would assume to be in the RFB mod or other such gameplay changing mods

I myself am hesitant to use major mods simply due to some changes outwith such as above. I will use them at a later date, but I would like to play through the game a few times "normally" as it were before I implement any major gameplay changing mods.

It would also give modders a "clean slate" as it were, from which to continue on any further work on the game without the need to include those changes.

wetwarev7 · 10-03-08, 02:34 PM

I wholeheartedly agree! The problem I think, is that a lot of times a bug fix will use the same file that you would use to just to add eye candy.

For instance, the "Leaky Pipes" fix uses alot of the same files that the "Working Fans" mod uses.

I usually end up downloading the big mods and just picking my way through them, extracting the changes I want and discarding the rest, but that is quite a pain.

Though the idea of having a community patch to address bugs only could be a viable option providing there was only one community patch. I would agree that this would allow modders an even start, no matter what other changes they were adding. Would prolly need to get a group of modders together, have them run a poll to decide what the community as a whole felt were bugs and move on from there.

Lexandro · 10-03-08, 09:38 PM

Are you meaning the leaking pipes in the cabin after damage? If so that would I think constitute an "eye candy" change since its not really a bug just a reminder of damage taken.

In any case perhaps this thread can be used to take a tally of any modders willing to partake in such a task as a bug fix mod.

If any modders are willing please add your name in this thread stating what you would like to do, that way we can get a running list of who may be needed where and on what tasks.

Sledgehammer427 · 10-03-08, 09:45 PM

i only wish i was able to do a few bugfixes...unfortunately...im caught up in everything else!
and i'm guessing you are talking about the stock game? because a HUGE number of bugs are fixed in the major mods. a.k.a RFB...TMO...FOTRS(even with its german language issues)...etc

Hitman · 10-04-08, 03:42 AM

I already proposed long ago something like that; the idea was to create an "unofficial" patch 1.6 that simply contains those bug fixes as a way to provide people who do supermods or people who prefer to have their own choice of individual tweaks with a common ground to start from.

The idea was mostly rejected because any new improvement to this 1.6 patch would force modders to revise their own work again to be fully compatible :hmm:

Lexandro · 10-04-08, 01:13 PM

I was suggesting simply one single mod, with all the current bug fixes already done by modders in one package. The idea was to ensure that everyone is "on the same page" with bug fixes. The same thing was done with Oblivion.

When the point was made previously I would assume that the modding community here was still hard at work making most of the content for mods. However now the majority of these mods are complete in one form or another. I dont think any major reworking of mods would be necessary. Simply removing any fixes in a mod would suffice to make it compatible with any community fix.

Its all about making the game as good as it can be. Im sure a large number of players dont or cant use major mods and would welcome such a bug fix mod. I know I would for one. And in any case if Ubi decided to patch the game again (unlikely but possible) the modders would need to redo their mods for a new patch version anyway.

10-04-08, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

I already proposed long ago something like that; the idea was to create an "unofficial" patch 1.6 that simply contains those bug fixes as a way to provide people who do supermods or people who prefer to have their own choice of individual tweaks with a common ground to start from.

The idea was mostly rejected because any new improvement to this 1.6 patch would force modders to revise their own work again to be fully compatible :hmm:

yes this is true, there was great resistance by modders with large mods not wanting to revisit some files they already changed. many people asked for them to cooperate but they refused to redo some of their work just so everyone could have the fixes to the stock game. the prevailing attitude at the time was use my mod or dont use it but dont ask me to make it work with a generic game fixes mod.

i can kind of understand them not wanting to start making different versions of files for this mod or that mod but if only we could all start with a better working version of the stock game then mods would not have to make as many changes as they do now.

you will have to do what many of us do, take the large mods and cut out all the crap (not intended as a critique) that you dont want and just keep the fixes you want. the big drawback is you need to learn how to mod so you understand how to remove unwanted stuff and understand what files effect what so you know how to decide if you can safely remove them. it takes time to figure some of the mods out so you get the results you are looking for. sometimes the mod maker will help you in your efforts but sometimes a person may be less willing and you will have to do it on your own.

the game fixes mods i have can all be combined into one mod for the stock game but if your using a large mod you will need to combine the changes i made to the files they have so their mod still makes the other changes they intended it to. just copy and paste all the data folders into the same file.

with some work you can "fix" the mods to do what you want them to do and not do the stuff you want left stock.

just remember, deleting any file from a mod means it wont change that file which leaves it stock.

wetwarev7 · 10-05-08, 07:26 AM

Quote:

The idea was mostly rejected because any new improvement to this 1.6 patch would force modders to revise their own work again to be fully compatible :hmm:

Quote:

yes this is true, there was great resistance by modders with large mods not wanting to revisit some files they already changed. many people asked for them to cooperate but they refused to redo some of their work just so everyone could have the fixes to the stock game. the prevailing attitude at the time was use my mod or dont use it but dont ask me to make it work with a generic game fixes mod.

Wait a sec. There really would be no need for the big mods to made compatible with a community patch, cause most of the big mods already have these fixes implemented. The community patch would really be for those of us who don't want to use the big mods, because of all the other changes included.

If a community patch were made and users were still asking for the big mods to be made compatible, the makers of those mods could still say 'No'.

Quote:

Are you meaning the leaking pipes in the cabin after damage? If so that would I think constitute an "eye candy" change since its not really a bug just a reminder of damage taken.

This is what I perceive to be the biggest challenge to making a community patch. I consider the leaky pipes to be a bug, because there is no way to turn them off once repairs are done. Others think it's not a bug. We would certainly have to compile a list of all possible bugs and all vote on every single one of them to make it fair.

Hitman · 10-05-08, 08:08 AM

In any case, I agree wholeheartedly with this effort. As a user of custom tailored mods, there is much in RFB or TM I respect but I'm not interested in, and many people see it also that way (Hey you can't please evryone everytime, and anyway both TM and RFB authors warn that their mods are -as it should be- their personal vision of what must be improved)

Quote:

This is what I perceive to be the biggest challenge to making a community patch. I consider the leaky pipes to be a bug, because there is no way to turn them off once repairs are done. Others think it's not a bug. We would certainly have to compile a list of all possible bugs and all vote on every single one of them to make it fair.

Some things are undoubtedly a bug, like the missing dials in the Gato conning tower, others are debatable. But I think that a good start would already be to fix those things that are clearly broken and everybody agrees at that. :hmm:

Quote:

the big drawback is you need to learn how to mod so you understand how to remove unwanted stuff and understand what files effect what so you know how to decide if you can safely remove them. it takes time to figure some of the mods out so you get the results you are looking for. sometimes the mod maker will help you in your efforts but sometimes a person may be less willing and you will have to do it on your own.

In most cases it would be a matter of replacing files or making the proper tweak. The author of the fix will surely help here and I suspect that once having implemented some, knowledge would have already been aquired about how it all works.

Also, S3D editor would be a great help

.

What is needed now is someone with the will and time to lead this group. It doesn't matter if he/she can mod or not, his task is to coordinate the efforts of others, ask for permissions, write readmes, etc.

Any volunteer?

10-05-08, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Wait a sec. There really would be no need for the big mods to made compatible with a community patch, cause most of the big mods already have these fixes implemented. The community patch would really be for those of us who don't want to use the big mods, because of all the other changes included.

If a community patch were made and users were still asking for the big mods to be made compatible, the makers of those mods could still say 'No'.

let me clarify a little, it wasnt that the large mods needed to work with the game fix mod but rather allow their fixes to be seperated from the mod. it wasnt easy to find someone who was willing to share how some things were done or to offer help.

a problem area is if the mod change is up for debate, like how powerful and acurate the sensors and depth charges are made to be. it is far from realistic in the stock game but to get the majority to all agree on what settings to use can be a real PITA.

you kinda need to get a concensus on what will be included because not everyone has the same opinions on what needs fixing. after you have a list agreed on then you can see if you need to have an all in one game fix mod with all of these or if you need some fixes to stay seperate so they can be options if you want them.

at this point in time i think cooperation from the larger mods makers would be easier because they now have their mods working correctly and we all have had time to adjust to v1.5 and its limitations.

10-05-08, 02:46 PM

have a look at the responses i got a while back from another thread just like this one from last year.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123543

10-05-08, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

What is needed now is someone with the will and time to lead this group. It doesn't matter if he/she can mod or not, his task is to coordinate the efforts of others, ask for permissions, write readmes, etc.

Any volunteer?

no, no, no, no way in....... oh ok, you talked me into it.

but you must understand this, since the hurricane i have had no computer so i borrow one to visit here. the back roof needs to be rebuilt and replaced so i wont have my computer room back up and running untill december at the eariest so no mod can be started until then so dont expect fast progress on this.

once things are back to normal i will be able to devote a good amount of time to it but volunteers will be needed for testing to help work out any bugs. i figure it will take us a few weeks just to agree on what should be in the mod anyway. :hmm: so in a few days i will start a thread to get imput on what should be in the mod.

as to my view on modding the game:
i am not a rivet counter but i do like things to be realistic as much as possible as long as it doesnt change the game too much. i try not to make the game more difficult to play only for the sake of being more realistic.

Lexandro · 10-06-08, 02:26 PM

Thanks for that Webster, its good to know someone is on the case. I would think a good start would be to accumulate all the fixes for 1.5 that have already been done by modders. For 1.4 fixes I think it would be easiest to leave till after 1.5 has been "com patched" so that it should be a case of simply removing 1.5 specific fixes.

10-03-08, 07:12 AM	#1
Lexandro Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: REDACTED Posts: 172 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	[Req] Community bug fix mod? Ive noticed that a lot of you enterprising people have fixed small issues with the stock game in a few different mods. Most of these fixes though tend to be intergrated with much more extensive mods. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to have just the bug fixes in a single seperate mod for those that dont want to fully mod the game. Your thoughts?

10-03-08, 02:34 PM	#4
wetwarev7 Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Deep Waters Posts: 871 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I wholeheartedly agree! The problem I think, is that a lot of times a bug fix will use the same file that you would use to just to add eye candy. For instance, the "Leaky Pipes" fix uses alot of the same files that the "Working Fans" mod uses. I usually end up downloading the big mods and just picking my way through them, extracting the changes I want and discarding the rest, but that is quite a pain. Though the idea of having a community patch to address bugs only could be a viable option providing there was only one community patch. I would agree that this would allow modders an even start, no matter what other changes they were adding. Would prolly need to get a group of modders together, have them run a poll to decide what the community as a whole felt were bugs and move on from there. __________________ Guess I should change my sig since SH5 has an offline mode now

10-03-08, 09:45 PM	#6
Sledgehammer427 PacWagon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,908 Downloads: 287 Uploads: 0	i only wish i was able to do a few bugfixes...unfortunately...im caught up in everything else! and i'm guessing you are talking about the stock game? because a HUGE number of bugs are fixed in the major mods. a.k.a RFB...TMO...FOTRS(even with its german language issues)...etc __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!

10-04-08, 03:42 AM	#7
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	I already proposed long ago something like that; the idea was to create an "unofficial" patch 1.6 that simply contains those bug fixes as a way to provide people who do supermods or people who prefer to have their own choice of individual tweaks with a common ground to start from. The idea was mostly rejected because any new improvement to this 1.6 patch would force modders to revise their own work again to be fully compatible :hmm: __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

10-03-08, 10:32 AM	#2
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	yes it is a good idea and many of us try to remind modders as much as we can that stand alone small mods are needed to go along side larger grouped changes that make up the bigger mods. i take this as my guide when i mod so that everything i do is stand alone, this way you collect the shopping list of what you like and end up with only the changes you want. then you can simply copy the mods into one folder and have one mod that does just the things you want and you dont need to install a group of mods to do the same thing. now if you are refering to "fixes" that correct problems and dont just change stuff for the sake of changing or improving it then that gets a little more difficult because some fixes require other changes to make them work or act correctly in the game. then there is the question of what is a fix as far as the way the game works vs a fix to correct non realistic settings. much debate on that last one.

10-03-08, 12:38 PM	#3
Lexandro Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: REDACTED Posts: 172 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	Well I mean "fixes" purely as broken aspects of the game, such as the battery issue, photo missions fix, missing commands (eg; weather report) etc. Changes other than simple pure game fixes such as major historical based fixes I would assume to be in the RFB mod or other such gameplay changing mods I myself am hesitant to use major mods simply due to some changes outwith such as above. I will use them at a later date, but I would like to play through the game a few times "normally" as it were before I implement any major gameplay changing mods. It would also give modders a "clean slate" as it were, from which to continue on any further work on the game without the need to include those changes.

10-03-08, 09:38 PM	#5
Lexandro Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: REDACTED Posts: 172 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	Are you meaning the leaking pipes in the cabin after damage? If so that would I think constitute an "eye candy" change since its not really a bug just a reminder of damage taken. In any case perhaps this thread can be used to take a tally of any modders willing to partake in such a task as a bug fix mod. If any modders are willing please add your name in this thread stating what you would like to do, that way we can get a running list of who may be needed where and on what tasks.

10-04-08, 01:13 PM	#8
Lexandro Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: REDACTED Posts: 172 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	I was suggesting simply one single mod, with all the current bug fixes already done by modders in one package. The idea was to ensure that everyone is "on the same page" with bug fixes. The same thing was done with Oblivion. When the point was made previously I would assume that the modding community here was still hard at work making most of the content for mods. However now the majority of these mods are complete in one form or another. I dont think any major reworking of mods would be necessary. Simply removing any fixes in a mod would suffice to make it compatible with any community fix. Its all about making the game as good as it can be. Im sure a large number of players dont or cant use major mods and would welcome such a bug fix mod. I know I would for one. And in any case if Ubi decided to patch the game again (unlikely but possible) the modders would need to redo their mods for a new patch version anyway.

10-05-08, 02:46 PM	#13
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	have a look at the responses i got a while back from another thread just like this one from last year. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123543

10-06-08, 02:26 PM	#15
Lexandro Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: REDACTED Posts: 172 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	Thanks for that Webster, its good to know someone is on the case. I would think a good start would be to accumulate all the fixes for 1.5 that have already been done by modders. For 1.4 fixes I think it would be easiest to leave till after 1.5 has been "com patched" so that it should be a case of simply removing 1.5 specific fixes.