Supply ships

GoldenRivet · 09-08-08, 03:09 PM

This is one aspect of the history of the U-boat war that has always confused me when it relates to GWX. Most of the information in the GWX manual deals with the discovery and subsequent attacks against the supply network, but deals little information on the politics or practices related to supply ships.

In GWX, supply ships are interned freighters held in neutral ports... im pretty sure this was the case in real life.

but here is what confuses me;

How would the U-boats get away with driving right into a neutral port and docking with one of these supply boats?

Where did spain stand with regards to ships like Bessel and Max Albrecht taking up station in their own neutral spanish ports?

why would spain be against this or for it?

How did the ships get there in the first place?

would it not be prudent of the U-Boats to be discreet when docking with such resupply boats? for example - moving in under cover of darkness or submerged?

furthermore, free commerce must have taken place between allied nations and spain.

would British merchant ships not notice the nazi steamer moored in a spanish port with a U-boat pulled aside it?

Im familiar with the concept of resupply ships as they related to the U-boats... but the above aspects just didnt make sense to me.

so in summation:

How did those boats get stuck in the spanish ports?

how did they get the supplies with which to resupply the U-boats?

What was the stance of spain during all of this?

did resupply operations within neutral ports require some sort of descretion and secrecy?

would the Spanish not intern the U-boat as well?

any info would be great

Jimbuna · 09-08-08, 03:32 PM

In the most general terms:

Supply boats were already stocked with supplies prior to 'internment'.

Replenishment was done mainly during periods of darkness.

'Internment' was often a position of convenience to the host nation to appease the allies.

The allies were often aware and spies would report a U-boats presence, often affording the allies the opportunity to await the U-boat leaving said port in international waters.

Not all supply boats were in harbours, but often in open seas.

GoldenRivet · 09-08-08, 03:35 PM

so spains position in WW2?

"We really dont want to get into this WW2 business seing as we are recovering from a civil war, but to make it look like we are making an effort we will intern these German ships... but for the most part we really dont care if a U-boat comes in and visits once in a while... no go leave us alone!"

does that about sum it up?

Jimbuna · 09-08-08, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

so spains position in WW2?

"We really dont want to get into this WW2 business seing as we are recovering from a civil war, but to make it look like we are making an effort we will intern these German ships... but for the most part we really dont care if a U-boat comes in and visits once in a while... no go leave us alone!"

does that about sum it up?

I think you sum it up well....Franco was only prepared to enter the war if Britain fell.

Hitler was really frustrated by his stance.

I should imagine Hitler was hoping Spain would march into Gibraltar and allow Germany easier access into the Med.

tigone · 09-08-08, 04:35 PM

Spain was officially neutral, but was a fascist state under Franco. The government was strongly sympathetic to Germany, and largely ignored things like the German resupply ships, so long as they managed to be discrete. Remember that the Germans had actively supported Franco's forces during the Spanish Civil War, providing both naval and Luftwaffe units in the fight.

You may recall the famous story of the "The Man Who Never Was," where a corpse, dressed as a British staff officer and carrying (phony) classified invasion plans was deposited off the Spanish coast at Huelva in an effort to mislead the Germans about Allied plans int he Mediterranean. The plan worked because the british knew that Spain was crawling with German spies, and that the papers would be in the hands of German intellengence within hours of the body washing ashore.

Oh, and Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead.

barkhorn45 · 09-08-08, 07:45 PM

for awhile at least spain was a semi allie of germany during the early part of the war.the spanish"blue"division fought on the eastern front until 1942 with german equipment but with spanish commanders and fought quite well.

Kielhauler1961 · 09-09-08, 04:01 AM

Spain in World War Two:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_in_World_War_II

sharkbit · 09-09-08, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Oh, and Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead.

You're dating yourself tigone.

I wonder how many people know where that line came from.

GoldenRivet · 09-09-08, 07:43 AM

HA i didnt even catch it.

wow.... that is old school

Sailor Steve · 09-09-08, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Quote:

Oh, and Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead.

You're dating yourself tigone.

I wonder how many people know where that line came from.

I did catch it, but I just got here, so I'll answer sharkbit's question by adding: "Not unlike Chevy Chase's career."
:rotfl:

GoldenRivet · 09-09-08, 03:29 PM

Jane you ignorant sl*t! :rotfl:

lol Steve... brother that was cold about his career :rotfl:

sharkbit · 09-10-08, 07:31 AM

Driving home from work yesterday, I saw a truck with "Garvin Plumbing" on it.

Thanks to the last couple posts in this thread, the first thing that came to mind was "Fred Garvin, male prostitute."

09-08-08, 03:09 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Supply ships This is one aspect of the history of the U-boat war that has always confused me when it relates to GWX. Most of the information in the GWX manual deals with the discovery and subsequent attacks against the supply network, but deals little information on the politics or practices related to supply ships. In GWX, supply ships are interned freighters held in neutral ports... im pretty sure this was the case in real life. but here is what confuses me; How would the U-boats get away with driving right into a neutral port and docking with one of these supply boats? Where did spain stand with regards to ships like Bessel and Max Albrecht taking up station in their own neutral spanish ports? why would spain be against this or for it? How did the ships get there in the first place? would it not be prudent of the U-Boats to be discreet when docking with such resupply boats? for example - moving in under cover of darkness or submerged? furthermore, free commerce must have taken place between allied nations and spain. would British merchant ships not notice the nazi steamer moored in a spanish port with a U-boat pulled aside it? Im familiar with the concept of resupply ships as they related to the U-boats... but the above aspects just didnt make sense to me. so in summation: How did those boats get stuck in the spanish ports? how did they get the supplies with which to resupply the U-boats? What was the stance of spain during all of this? did resupply operations within neutral ports require some sort of descretion and secrecy? would the Spanish not intern the U-boat as well? any info would be great __________________

09-08-08, 03:32 PM	#2
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	In the most general terms: Supply boats were already stocked with supplies prior to 'internment'. Replenishment was done mainly during periods of darkness. 'Internment' was often a position of convenience to the host nation to appease the allies. The allies were often aware and spies would report a U-boats presence, often affording the allies the opportunity to await the U-boat leaving said port in international waters. Not all supply boats were in harbours, but often in open seas. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

09-08-08, 03:35 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	so spains position in WW2? "We really dont want to get into this WW2 business seing as we are recovering from a civil war, but to make it look like we are making an effort we will intern these German ships... but for the most part we really dont care if a U-boat comes in and visits once in a while... no go leave us alone!" does that about sum it up? __________________

09-09-08, 07:43 AM	#9
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	HA i didnt even catch it. wow.... that is old school __________________

09-09-08, 03:29 PM	#11
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Jane you ignorant sl*t! :rotfl: lol Steve... brother that was cold about his career :rotfl: __________________

09-08-08, 04:35 PM	#5
tigone Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Spain was officially neutral, but was a fascist state under Franco. The government was strongly sympathetic to Germany, and largely ignored things like the German resupply ships, so long as they managed to be discrete. Remember that the Germans had actively supported Franco's forces during the Spanish Civil War, providing both naval and Luftwaffe units in the fight. You may recall the famous story of the "The Man Who Never Was," where a corpse, dressed as a British staff officer and carrying (phony) classified invasion plans was deposited off the Spanish coast at Huelva in an effort to mislead the Germans about Allied plans int he Mediterranean. The plan worked because the british knew that Spain was crawling with German spies, and that the papers would be in the hands of German intellengence within hours of the body washing ashore. Oh, and Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead.

09-08-08, 07:45 PM	#6
barkhorn45 Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 50 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	for awhile at least spain was a semi allie of germany during the early part of the war.the spanish"blue"division fought on the eastern front until 1942 with german equipment but with spanish commanders and fought quite well.

09-09-08, 04:01 AM	#7
Kielhauler1961 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East of the Firth of Forth Posts: 273 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Spain in World War Two: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_in_World_War_II

09-10-08, 07:31 AM	#12
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	Driving home from work yesterday, I saw a truck with "Garvin Plumbing" on it. Thanks to the last couple posts in this thread, the first thing that came to mind was "Fred Garvin, male prostitute." __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”