CHESS: Subsim team versus Letum

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, I fire up another chess thread now. Letum maybe wants to be the opponent again, if I got you correct? I recommend that those players considerign themselves to be beginners jpoin in a team there, and discuss their move suggestions - and the reason why they think of that move. It would be nice if Letum waits with his move, until a consensus is there. I will jump in and comment on any erratic thoughts. I will not suggest moves, though, only make you guys start asking the right questions.

It is an experiment, of course. Let'S see how it works out. In best case, we get a lot of communication and hoepefully a very vivid thread.

Is there enough interest to have a second chess thread where tactics and rules and principles get introduced in one essay per item? Anybody knowing his stuff could volunteer to write a posting about his favourite thing. A given opening for example. The tactical use of Zugzwang/compulsory moves. Berger's square.

Kranz, Kurtz, Lance,
your moment to begin with White's first move. Give your ideas behind your suggestions in brief form.

And for heaven'S sake, number your moves! How shouold one refer to your moves if the list already shows 60 half moves?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Good fun! What shall we do first?

[Skybird]

I emailed the other two over their interest. Let'S give Letum some time to react to the other thread and this one.

If nothing happens within some hours, suggest your first move. If Letum does not show up, I'll take his part.

[Letum]

What the......?

I don't like these odds!
But I'm up for it.

I promise not to read any move discussion posted here if you put the move you decide on in large font so I can find it without skim-reading any other move discussion.
*edit* So obviously I won't reply to anything thats not in bold if you do want me to read it.

*edit2*
Ignore everything above! How about the team discusses moves in the old Letum Vs Undersea post and I wont go there.

*edit3* ignore all of the above and read what Skybird said. I am basicaly clueless.

Move 1.
E2-E4

[UnderseaLcpl]

Ok you're white I guess. Apologies in advance for the lengthy discourse that is sure to accompany each move.

[Skybird]

Okay, then Letum plays white, against Lance, and whoever will join.

Black (subsim Team) to make it's move. Make your suggestions. Letum gives some time for the others to react.

And letum, it is okay to read what is written here.this is not so much a duel match but to get bthe starters on track. It is not so much about the result, but to make them think from different perspectives about their moves. By writing their reaosn for their move suggestions, i can show them were they simply think wrong, or have overseen something, or base on false assumptions. I will not give them direct move suggestions.

[Skybird]

Lance suggested 1..../Ng8-f6 in the old and (hopefully shut down) thread.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

The advantages would be that I could have more freedom to devlop my strategy with my queen and bishop, I would block the forward progress of his pawn, and I would establish a presence in the center of the board.

No, you do not stop the forward movement, in fact, you invited him for an opening called Aljechin defense whose purpose is to provoke the andvance of e4-e5, and make him move d2-d4 and more pawn moves instead of developing his figures. In that opening Black accepts that he makes many moves with his knight as well. Both parties play illogical here, but Black hopes to have a slightly higher advantage in the end by having one "stupidity" less than White - for White creates a centre of pawns that Black plans to attack, showing it's weakness. This is nom opening for beginners, really. It's considered to be very advanced, and you should really stay away from it for the time being.

You do not have a strategy so far, so you are wrong where you say you want to support it by developing your bishop and knight. A strategy is not just a dream ("maybe attack f2"), but it bases on realities that are perceived while they unfold, it takes them into account and tries to influence their future turnout to support the strategy the more the clearer your idea becomes, it is mutual, and works both directions simulatenously. You have the choice, if you knew chess openings, wether or not you would want to push for centre of flanking games, for closed, strategic positions, or more open, tactic ones, but right now you do not know all that, and thus do not have a strategy any different from "keeping in play". Increase your developement options, keep your position safe, protect your pieces, don't lose one, psotion them so that they can mutually support each other, and must not move again in the early phase, if possible.

e7-e5 blocks white'S advance, opens your king'S bishop to move, bringing you one move closer to casteling, and the knight-move you still can do one move later, if you wish -without him being able to answer that with e5, then. It also givs oyu ypur stand in the important centre. With the knight move, you give up the centre. Bad idea.

However, I made the move I did so as to force him to either support his pawn or move it again, either one of which might restrict the development of his strategy. If he ignores the threat, he loses the pawn and I may be able to fork his queen and kingside rook once I support an attack on f2 with my bishop or queen in my 3rd move.

That is a very vague hope. While you outline part of the idea of the Aljechin defense as described (he needs to derfend his pawn or advance it), the rest of the plan has two faults. first, you want to attack f2 that early, that needs you to move the queen o0ut very early, and if he is aware of it coming, he will develope his figures by chasing your queen arroundk, that means oyu maike many moves and dvelope nothing, while he makes moves adn developes his figures. Second, the early mate on f2 is a famous theme - and only absolute beginners fall for it: don't bet your money on your opponent being so weak.

1. e4/e5 2.Qh5??/Nc6 (to guard the pawn on e5) 3. Bc4/Nf6 4. Qf7#

note that I mark the queen move with two ?, saying it is an exztremely weak move.A strategy that depends on your opponent being stupoid and cooperating, is a weak strategy. A strong strategy is one that you enforce with him being unable to do something against it.

1. f3/e6 2. g4/Qh4#

Another famous chess joke. But remember: Black does not play strong here - but White plays very stupid. Don't mix up these two.

[kranz]

thx for PM Skybird. I got a bit confussed-who plays white? So, my suggestion: 1.e2-e4 if we play white or 1.../c7-c6 for Letum's opening move.

PS: may I know sth about you, Letum? I mean are you a pro-player etc...

[Skybird]

Team Subsim plays black.

I volunteered Letum. It happened because last match was Letum vs Lance and Lance got a little bit rolled over.

And you are here because you expressed interest in this experiment in the other thread.

Lance said 1.../Nf6, Kranz says c6. And when Kurtz does not show up, you two must make a decision. For example Lance probably doesnot know the long-timed plan behind c6, which also is against all I gave in tips in the othe thread.

Kranz, due to your comment in the other thread I rank you as beginner, too. If I do you unjust, please tell me. Nothing worse than to tell you what to do and what not - and learning afterwards that you are a regular player since 30 years.

[kranz]

Ok, so here is the story: as I said before I played in a chess club for about 4 years, about 4-5 people really interested in the game: discussing games, reading books etc. And about 5 kids just having fun moving pieces. But I reached a level that I couldn't lose to anyone and couldn't beat a better player. So I had to decide- devote more time to it going further or just leave it due to lack of time(school). I managed to reach sth like 2nd category lvl which was quite nice among 14-18 y old kids but now is rather "fufu" if you consider how much time I lost. I think that calling me a beginner is quite a good term for the place where I am now. Back to moves: I think we should give Lance more time to show up. And, yes-c7-c6 is a bit out of the general rules you have given.

PSh, now I got it! I thought you are going only to play without helping so when I saw your "lecture" I called you a teacher. But it didn't reffer to quality of what you said only to the idea of saying this

[UnderseaLcpl]

Okay I vote for e7-e5.

Btw sky, you got me backwards in that long post. The 3 "reasons" i suggested were for c7-c5. Not for Ng8-f6.


edit: see sky's post below. I said c when I meant e

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Okay I vote for c7-c5.

Btw sky, you got me backwards in that long post. The 3 "reasons" i suggested were for c7-c5. Not for Ng8-f6.

You really need to get those writing errors under control, Lance.

Why c5? What does it do for you? Why is it better than e5, which already does three good things for you? I assume you have snapped up that move, which is the Sicilian defence, in a book. But have you read about the idea behind c5? Can you implement that complex set of ideas?

e7-e5
- blocks the white pwan in the centre
- gives oyu a foothold in the centre yourself (golden rule: always try to hold at least one pawn in the centre)
-opens the diagonal for the king'S bishop, leaving you the choice to develope it beofre the king's knight, if desired,
- brings oyu one move closer to casteling
-denies white the easy occupation of the centre by moving d2-d4.

Whoops, that are not threee but five good reasons.

c7-c5
- denies White the move d2-d4
- opens the diagonal d8-a5 for the Queen (that should not move that early anyway, so that advantage comes too early anyway)

And that in the immidiate turn seems to be all that it is doing. It does not help to develope your figures. It does not improvce your king'S safety perspectives. It does not free any of the bishops. It cannot be covered without moving another pawn, currently. So, why c5?

Gentlemen, you two decide over your next move now, so that Letum can reply.

[kranz]

so I vote for e7-e5, sicilian too offensive.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Glad to have you on the team kranz!
Try to keep me from doing anything stupid, will you?

[Skybird]

So be it.




Neal must become furious about his bandwidth being wasted like this , with plenty of diagrams. I will reduce it, therefore. In the first topic of every page, I will post one diagram, and then constantly REPLACE it with the most actual one. additional diagrams I only give where needed for explanatory purposes.