wtf! bombers stealing tonnage

Ilpalazzo · 08-12-08, 03:14 PM

Hey guys, maybe this is just some retarded coincidence. I'm going to be venting a little anger here so bear with me as it might be long.

I'm in my first patrol in the Mediterranean and twice now when I'm just about to sink a ship, bombers will come from outta seemingly nowhere and bomb my target. This would be awesome if they were helping. However, all this does is take away credit that I may have had for that sinking.

This was quite a boring patrol, not much happened. So maybe that's why this bugs me so much. I did manage to sink two large merchants though.

The first ship was a simple, lone, coastal merchant. I start to make short work of it with my deck gun. Before I could sink it some bombers come and destroy it. "OK" I thought, "that was pretty cool." Something like a week later with no contacts since that last merchant, I run into a task force and decide to go for this heavy cruiser. I cripple it with a torp (3 others missed

). I slowly maneuvered around for an aft torp shot as all my fore torps were used up. So there I am setting up the shot. Now this took me a little while as I didn't want to arouse any attention from the destroyers. Strangely only one investigates and promptly leaves. I fire my aft torpedo at this heavy cruiser who is now dead in the water, it hits. As my next torpedo is loading I examine the ship with my scope to see if it had much effect. I notice that just as my torpedo hit this cruiser, it immediately and continually began firing guns off into nowhere. Ten seconds later, I decide to look up and follow it's tracer fire. Eventually, 3 bombers come into view and just own this thing.

I got no credit. The patrol was fairly uneventful. I got angry because I felt like I worked hard to get that one, I waited for that, and then this just happens. It seemed as though before I could get a chance to have the ship sink from my torpedo these planes are spawned into the world to try and finish it before it can flood and sink. It just feels like tonnage stealing. Seems like way too much of a coincidence as right when that last torp hit the ship, it's guns began firing. I feel as though it was going to sink, but before it could, these bombers tried to destroy the ship.

Now, I would like to pretend that these bombers just happened to notice plumes of smoke from far away and decided to bomb whatever was making the smoke. Would have been nice if they noticed the rest of the task force not far off and went to town on it. It's just too coincedental. Those guns began firing immediately after my (perhaps fatal) torp hit.

I am using the latest GWX with SH3 Commander.

GoldenRivet · 08-12-08, 03:41 PM

this has been an issue with a lot of players for a long time.

such is the nature of the beast. in the future just try to sink ships before planes show up.

Ilpalazzo · 08-12-08, 04:02 PM

So this is a stock sh3 issue? Why would this be made to happen? Is this guaranteed to happen if I wait a while?

GoldenRivet · 08-12-08, 04:10 PM

well yes i suppose... it is a stock issue

in the SH3 engine... any time a particular unit - be it a plane sub or ship - makes visual contact with any other unit it determines if they are friend or foe.

if they are foe, they will attack one another.

very simple really.

the matter of airplanes is; if you send a contact report when you sight an enemy you plan on attacking, if you are within a close distance to land, generally planes will show up to "help" you out by dropping a couple of bombs on your target.

sometimes this results in the target being destroyed, if the SH3 engine determines that the bombs were the fatal blow... sorry ... the planes get credit.

you really have to be mindful of this in the med and in the north sea... there is a lot of air activity in both those regions.

there is no way to prevent the planes from attacking a target they have spotted... even if you have already started your attack on it... they will still try to "help"

there are situations where this sucks; for example you torpedoed a large tanker and it is not quite destroyed and the planed bomb it and "steal" your kill.

but there are also situations where this is a good thing... for example you are under attack from destroyers and you fire off a contact report and crash dive... sometimes, and i do mean SOMETIMES the planes will show up and bomb the destroyers buying you time to escape.

long story short, SH3 is a pretty dynamic game. when you throw GWX into the mix... SH3 becomes an EXTREMELY DYNAMIC GAME so things like this are bound to happen... and there really is nothing to be done for it,

planes will show up based on a random percent chance and weather.

initally people complained that they never saw any friendly planes in SH3/GWX - though some people have never witnessed friendly planes showing up to "help others have seen more than they care too.

its just random really

Ilpalazzo · 08-12-08, 04:20 PM

Interesting, I never sent a contact report on either of these cases. In fact, I don't think I've used the 'send contact report' thing in quite some time. I thought it didn't do anything. I'm going to try to take advantage of that now.

So, are all planes in the game world spawned because of certain events or are they actually going their own way like a convoy would? Like the planes that stole my second kill. Did they just happen to be travelling close enough to see it and go for it? Or were they spawned near me for the sole intention of killing whatever was closest to them/me?

GoldenRivet · 08-12-08, 04:27 PM

i would guess it was a "random group" of whatever type of planes it turned out to be.

the random group will be invisible in the campaign.RND layer and will follow preset waypoints. SH3 decides to spawn them based on weather and a random percent chance... just like a convoy or any other non-scripted ship.

in a case like i have just described... it does not matter if you sent a report or not. it sounds to me like you came across the planes just by pure chance

however, sending a report increases the % chance by some margin that aircraft will respond.

SH3 knows where airbases are in the game even though they might not appear on the map... and SH3 also knows which types of planes are "based" at the airport.

when you send a contact report SH3 basically looks at 3 things

1. distance between you and the nearest friendly air base
2. weather condition
3.% chance that aircraft would respond to your report

when SH3 is satisfied that

1. the distance between you and the air base falls within the operational range of the planes at the nearest base
2. weather is good for flying
3. % chance of aircraft response is above "X" percent

planes will probably show up.

however if SH3 rules out air support by nullifying any of the 3 conditions planes will not show up to assist based on your contact report.

for example if the weather is bad, or if the nearest air base is too far away. the % chance of aircraft spawning and assisting you automatically drops to zero.

hope this makes sense.

08-12-08, 03:14 PM	#1
Ilpalazzo Frogman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 309 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	wtf! bombers stealing tonnage Hey guys, maybe this is just some retarded coincidence. I'm going to be venting a little anger here so bear with me as it might be long. I'm in my first patrol in the Mediterranean and twice now when I'm just about to sink a ship, bombers will come from outta seemingly nowhere and bomb my target. This would be awesome if they were helping. However, all this does is take away credit that I may have had for that sinking. This was quite a boring patrol, not much happened. So maybe that's why this bugs me so much. I did manage to sink two large merchants though. The first ship was a simple, lone, coastal merchant. I start to make short work of it with my deck gun. Before I could sink it some bombers come and destroy it. "OK" I thought, "that was pretty cool." Something like a week later with no contacts since that last merchant, I run into a task force and decide to go for this heavy cruiser. I cripple it with a torp (3 others missed ). I slowly maneuvered around for an aft torp shot as all my fore torps were used up. So there I am setting up the shot. Now this took me a little while as I didn't want to arouse any attention from the destroyers. Strangely only one investigates and promptly leaves. I fire my aft torpedo at this heavy cruiser who is now dead in the water, it hits. As my next torpedo is loading I examine the ship with my scope to see if it had much effect. I notice that just as my torpedo hit this cruiser, it immediately and continually began firing guns off into nowhere. Ten seconds later, I decide to look up and follow it's tracer fire. Eventually, 3 bombers come into view and just own this thing. I got no credit. The patrol was fairly uneventful. I got angry because I felt like I worked hard to get that one, I waited for that, and then this just happens. It seemed as though before I could get a chance to have the ship sink from my torpedo these planes are spawned into the world to try and finish it before it can flood and sink. It just feels like tonnage stealing. Seems like way too much of a coincidence as right when that last torp hit the ship, it's guns began firing. I feel as though it was going to sink, but before it could, these bombers tried to destroy the ship. Now, I would like to pretend that these bombers just happened to notice plumes of smoke from far away and decided to bomb whatever was making the smoke. Would have been nice if they noticed the rest of the task force not far off and went to town on it. It's just too coincedental. Those guns began firing immediately after my (perhaps fatal) torp hit. I am using the latest GWX with SH3 Commander.

08-12-08, 03:41 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	this has been an issue with a lot of players for a long time. such is the nature of the beast. in the future just try to sink ships before planes show up. __________________

08-12-08, 04:10 PM	#4
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	well yes i suppose... it is a stock issue in the SH3 engine... any time a particular unit - be it a plane sub or ship - makes visual contact with any other unit it determines if they are friend or foe. if they are foe, they will attack one another. very simple really. the matter of airplanes is; if you send a contact report when you sight an enemy you plan on attacking, if you are within a close distance to land, generally planes will show up to "help" you out by dropping a couple of bombs on your target. sometimes this results in the target being destroyed, if the SH3 engine determines that the bombs were the fatal blow... sorry ... the planes get credit. you really have to be mindful of this in the med and in the north sea... there is a lot of air activity in both those regions. there is no way to prevent the planes from attacking a target they have spotted... even if you have already started your attack on it... they will still try to "help" there are situations where this sucks; for example you torpedoed a large tanker and it is not quite destroyed and the planed bomb it and "steal" your kill. but there are also situations where this is a good thing... for example you are under attack from destroyers and you fire off a contact report and crash dive... sometimes, and i do mean SOMETIMES the planes will show up and bomb the destroyers buying you time to escape. long story short, SH3 is a pretty dynamic game. when you throw GWX into the mix... SH3 becomes an EXTREMELY DYNAMIC GAME so things like this are bound to happen... and there really is nothing to be done for it, planes will show up based on a random percent chance and weather. initally people complained that they never saw any friendly planes in SH3/GWX - though some people have never witnessed friendly planes showing up to "help others have seen more than they care too. its just random really __________________

08-12-08, 04:27 PM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i would guess it was a "random group" of whatever type of planes it turned out to be. the random group will be invisible in the campaign.RND layer and will follow preset waypoints. SH3 decides to spawn them based on weather and a random percent chance... just like a convoy or any other non-scripted ship. in a case like i have just described... it does not matter if you sent a report or not. it sounds to me like you came across the planes just by pure chance however, sending a report increases the % chance by some margin that aircraft will respond. SH3 knows where airbases are in the game even though they might not appear on the map... and SH3 also knows which types of planes are "based" at the airport. when you send a contact report SH3 basically looks at 3 things 1. distance between you and the nearest friendly air base 2. weather condition 3.% chance that aircraft would respond to your report when SH3 is satisfied that 1. the distance between you and the air base falls within the operational range of the planes at the nearest base 2. weather is good for flying 3. % chance of aircraft response is above "X" percent planes will probably show up. however if SH3 rules out air support by nullifying any of the 3 conditions planes will not show up to assist based on your contact report. for example if the weather is bad, or if the nearest air base is too far away. the % chance of aircraft spawning and assisting you automatically drops to zero. hope this makes sense. __________________

08-12-08, 04:02 PM	#3
Ilpalazzo Frogman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 309 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	So this is a stock sh3 issue? Why would this be made to happen? Is this guaranteed to happen if I wait a while?

08-12-08, 04:20 PM	#5
Ilpalazzo Frogman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 309 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Interesting, I never sent a contact report on either of these cases. In fact, I don't think I've used the 'send contact report' thing in quite some time. I thought it didn't do anything. I'm going to try to take advantage of that now. So, are all planes in the game world spawned because of certain events or are they actually going their own way like a convoy would? Like the planes that stole my second kill. Did they just happen to be travelling close enough to see it and go for it? Or were they spawned near me for the sole intention of killing whatever was closest to them/me?