First sub sim, help please.

[darkcurrent]

Hi, I've been lurking around here trying to get better at SH4 and I've learned how to use the dick O'kane maneuvers and manual TDC based on the (great) videos by rockin robbins and the likes, but I don't really get how to attack convoys...


For example, the dick O'kane maneuver is really great for attacking one or two merchant ships, but what strategies would I use to attack the other merchant ships in the convoy?

From my newbie point of view, it seems like the dick o'kane maneuver is more like ambushing other ships, allowing you plenty of time to get the AOB, range, speed, etc... but once you sink a convoy ship, the other merchants goes crazy and zig zag all over the place... I'm not sure how to manually do TDC since the range, speed and AOB is constantly changing.

Any advice on what strategies to use for attacking convoys and how to do manual TDC when the ships are zig zagging?

Thanks

[FIREWALL]

Welcome Aboard darkcurrent

I'll let the better SH4 members give you advice.

Nows your time to quit lurkin and get involved with SubSim.

[Mush Martin]

at the moment Rockin Robbins, Urge and myself are trying to work up
a torpedo spreads workshop, in looking over the preliminaries this weekend
its going to take us some time to churn out some product that can be
used by others.

so for now might I suggest.

try a variation of dick okane.

put your crosshairs ahead of the target ship let go of the scope.

as the target ship goes by the cross hairs to the point of the target
wherby you would normally start firing.
start the stopwatch and dont move the crosshairs.
when the next ship in line gets to the point where the target image
is such that you would make your first firing shot on it.
stop the stop watch.
take the number of seconds displayed.

set your first three torps for the depth on target one
and your second three torps on the depth for target two.

set up on ship one for dick okane again this time ready to fire.

fire your first three and as you press fire button for #3 delay firing
4,5 & 6
until you have counted off the same number of seconds as
the stopwatch showed on the trial run.

You may now touch the scope and feel free to move about the
cabin, if youve got em smoke.
M

[edit] and welcome to subsim.

[darkcurrent]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

at the moment Rockin Robbins, Urge and myself are trying to work up
a torpedo spreads workshop, in looking over the preliminaries this weekend
its going to take us some time to churn out some product that can be
used by others.

so for now might I suggest.

try a variation of dick okane.

put your crosshairs ahead of the target ship let go of the scope.

as the target ship goes by the cross hairs to the point of the target
wherby you would normally start firing.
start the stopwatch and dont move the crosshairs.
when the next ship in line gets to the point where the target image
is such that you would make your first firing shot on it.
stop the stop watch.
take the number of seconds displayed.

set your first three torps for the depth on target one
and your second three torps on the depth for target two.

set up on ship one for dick okane again this time ready to fire.

fire your first three and as you press fire button for #3 delay firing
4,5 & 6
until you have counted off the same number of seconds as
the stopwatch showed on the trial run.

You may now touch the scope and feel free to move about the
cabin, if youve got em smoke.
M

[edit] and welcome to subsim.

Thanks! great advice!

[SteamWake]

If I recall correctly...

The crazy zig zagging was patched in at some point because in the game as released the convoy would come to a halt making it a turkey shoot.

Guess thats better than nothing.

I cant add anything to the others tactics its solid advice.

In the meantime... welcome.

[Orion2012]

Originally Posted by darkcurrent

Hi, I've been lurking around here trying to get better at SH4 and I've learned how to use the dick O'kane maneuvers and manual TDC based on the (great) videos by rockin robbins and the likes, but I don't really get how to attack convoys...


For example, the dick O'kane maneuver is really great for attacking one or two merchant ships, but what strategies would I use to attack the other merchant ships in the convoy?

From my newbie point of view, it seems like the dick o'kane maneuver is more like ambushing other ships, allowing you plenty of time to get the AOB, range, speed, etc... but once you sink a convoy ship, the other merchants goes crazy and zig zag all over the place... I'm not sure how to manually do TDC since the range, speed and AOB is constantly changing.

Any advice on what strategies to use for attacking convoys and how to do manual TDC when the ships are zig zagging?

Thanks

When it comes to convoy's I normally try and let the lead DD past me while, I'm coming in with one of the outer lines of merchies at about a 45 degree angle on bow, come to periscope (I approach below the thermal layer to get past the lead DD) get my range and speed, then begin approaching the 90 degree AOB like the o'kane method. As far as engaging zip-zag targets, it's a guessing/instincts kind of thing, but in the truth of things, a target dosen't normally zig-zag unless you've been spotted or heard and at that point your at a huge tactical disadvantage and might be better off finding new prey.

Also, if your new to SH4 and play with any mods, or even a stock game, aircraft may seem like bothersome flies in need of swatting down, but they can and WILL sink you or destroy you. Nothing more frustrating then being on the way back from a 75000 ton patrol to have your tanks punctured by a bothersome (in my case british, as I'm playing OM) aircraft.

Good Hunting

[darkcurrent]

Originally Posted by Orion2012

When it comes to convoy's I normally try and let the lead DD past me while, I'm coming in with one of the outer lines of merchies at about a 45 degree angle on bow, come to periscope (I approach below the thermal layer to get past the lead DD) get my range and speed, then begin approaching the 90 degree AOB like the o'kane method. As far as engaging zip-zag targets, it's a guessing/instincts kind of thing, but in the truth of things, a target dosen't normally zig-zag unless you've been spotted or heard and at that point your at a huge tactical disadvantage and might be better off finding new prey.

Also, if your new to SH4 and play with any mods, or even a stock game, aircraft may seem like bothersome flies in need of swatting down, but they can and WILL sink you or destroy you. Nothing more frustrating then being on the way back from a 75000 ton patrol to have your tanks punctured by a bothersome (in my case british, as I'm playing OM) aircraft.

Good Hunting

I think I was doing something along the same lines. I was doing a war patrol and had to patrol in japan seas during the year 1944 and after getting to the sea, my crew visually picked up a convoy and I plotted where they were going to be, went below thermal after aligning a 90 degree angle and waited. When the time came, I went to periscope depth and picked the largest merchant ship (large modern tanker) and sanked it using the dick o'kane method. After that happened the other tankers beside it just all (in unison) began moving left and right.... I remained at periscope depth and no destroyers came to my location... just the damn tankers zig zagging...

I guess there are other prey, but do you know if they will stop zig zagging soon enough? or do they keep doing that? cause I was thinking maybe I should follow them either under thermal for awhile and maybe go back to PD after they've stopped zig zagging.

Implicitly, you're saying that it is possible to torpedo one of the merchant ships in the convoy without the other merchant ships performing evasive maneuvers, right? Cause if there are, I may just abandon the convoy I'm stalking now for other convoys.

At first I tried to engage the planes, but got bombed, so now I just hide under water every time one of my men sees a plane... works but annoying as hell.

thanks

PS: sorry for spelling mistakes, I'm using my brother's MX5000 keyboard and It's so different and harder to press the keys...

[Mush Martin]

a well aimed spread is a fine way to defeat a zig zagging target.

the target still follows a base course
and varies its helm a set number of degrees
off of the base course on either side with
a regular cadence to switch in game.

suppose the targets true speed is roughly twelve knots
and hes zigzagging twenty two and half degrees either
side of his base course.

if he was making twelve in a striaght line course
now he is making 8 or 9 kts along the base course
with slightly but constantly varying range and aob.

mark the course line

time the amount of time between two crossings.

aim for the next cross point figure out your runtime
set a spread to reduce the errors

fire at the appropriate moment.

the theory works but as with all things theres
a lot to figure on and a lot to go wrong.
but thats more or less how its done.
M

[Orion2012]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

a well aimed spread is a fine way to defeat a zig zagging target.

the target still follows a base course
and varies its helm a set number of degrees
off of the base course on either side with
a regular cadence to switch in game.

suppose the targets true speed is roughly twelve knots
and hes zigzagging twenty two and half degrees either
side of his base course.

if he was making twelve in a striaght line course
now he is making 8 or 9 kts along the base course
with slightly but constantly varying range and aob.

mark the course line

time the amount of time between two crossings.

aim for the next cross point figure out your runtime
set a spread to reduce the errors

fire at the appropriate moment.

the theory works but as with all things theres
a lot to figure on and a lot to go wrong.
but thats more or less how its done.
M

Thats sound advice when it comes to a zig-zag target. I personally think its much easier to engaging a zig-zagging target with a uboat because they have a true salvo switch and you can set a spread angel, but with a uboat you also may have homing torpedos which are very effective against merchants. But were talking fleet boats, and the above tactic is very sound.

And when engaging a convoy, you can get more then one target. Fire at the most distant target first and continuing firing at them in the order of there distance (I.E. 3000yrds, 2500,2000) with a few seconds in between. The idea being that all the torpedoes impact at around the same time, limiting there ability to zig-zag. I've even had them so close that the first fish hits on target 2 before the second or third torpedoes hit on the initial target.

[Mush Martin]

You can do it with a fleet boat too. :hmm:?

all a salvo switch does is time the shot and hold
the angle, in effect a pk and a good sense of timing
are the same thing.

I dont have troubles shooting multiple targets in either
ocean, but when it comes to shooting more intricate
salvo forms I skip the salvo button usually anyway
in my type IXB.

the only limitation in anysubmarine french italian american japanese
british turkish or german is the understanding of the captain.

its a weapons system, a platform for the delivery of torpedo attacks.
and well used even a wwI boat with short slow straight runners and
no TDC is still a dangerous fish.