GWX Radar detectors, technical question.

UnderseaLcpl · 06-23-08, 02:12 AM

Ok here's a question for those of you who, unlike me, know something about modding/programming beyond QBASIC.

I have notcied that upon recieving the warning; "detecting radar signals" and getting a bearing line the end of the line seems to home in on you immediately.

Now, I was under the impression that radar emissions could be detected before they were strong enough to generate a return. It would seem this is not the case but is radar modeled this way in GWX 2.1 and if not is it possible to model it that way?

Thanks for any help and taking the time to enlighten an idiot.

irish1958 · 06-23-08, 06:54 AM

If you detect a radar signal while in time compression, the higher TC the worse it gets in not being able to evade.
It is true that the reception of the reflected radio wave takes the same amount of time to return (at 300Km/Sec) and the strength is reduced (energy decreases with the square of the distance).
I have had no trouble evading radar in GWX2.1 if I pay attention to time compression, especially in heavily are patrolled areas.

UnderseaLcpl · 06-23-08, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

If you detect a radar signal while in time compression, the higher TC the worse it gets in not being able to evade.
It is true that the reception of the reflected radio wave takes the same amount of time to return (at 300Km/Sec) and the strength is reduced (energy decreases with the square of the distance).
I have had no trouble evading radar in GWX2.1 if I pay attention to time compression, especially in heavily are patrolled areas.

This confuses me. When a signal is detected I am automatically reduced to 8x TC, which I promptly reduce to 1x. Nonetheless, although ships seem to be able to sail past me without detecting me, aircraft always seem to head towards me, not just to my position but on an intercept course. This has caused me to believe that an unmodeled land-based radar station is directing them towards me.

irish1958 · 06-23-08, 04:15 PM

Since I wasn't in on the development of the sensors, I can't say for sure that you will always detect the radar before being detected. However with extensive testing of the radar coverage in the Bay of Biscay, I found the following:
Ships have more trouble detecting you than air cover does; and with time compression up to 128, if I immediately crash dived, the destroyers never detected me.
This is not true for air cover. If I ran 16x or above, they detected me. At 8x, if I immediately crash dive, they usually missed me, but not always. Perhaps due to the closing speed of up to 300 knots, you don't have the time to react.
This was the testing in 1943. Perhaps in earlier years you could get away with higher time compressions.
The air cover radar was extensively tested and retested and set and reset many times. And as the years progressed into 1944 and 1945, it became almost impossible to evade.
I hope this helps.

KeptinCranky · 06-23-08, 05:52 PM

The planes don't always detect you, even in 1944 and even in broad daylight....

It may seem that way because you only detect their radar signals when they are angling at least slightly towards you, otherwise their emissions wouldn't be coming within range of your detection gear at all and you'd never know they were there...

If you are of an enquiring turn of mind you might just stay on the surface at 1x tc and see what they do, if they're heading in on a sharp angle they will detect you but if they're not closing too fast they may not respond to the contact....

I do suggest you get the twin rapid-fire 37mm flak gun before you try this, it makes things a bit more equal, I took down 3 planes in 1944 with no damage to my boat, by letting them come to me, going to flank speed and keeping their initial attack run at about 180 degrees, killed a Sunderland, a mosquito and a wellington that way, and had a beaufighter that came within visual (but not flak) range without doing anything...

So yes they are annoying, they're supposed to be, but not impossible...
and diving as soon as you get the radar detection, and going to at least 25m wiull get you safe most times...it's uncomfortable when your sonardude picks up a warship at that moment though

06-23-08, 07:52 PM

Any Time Compression is a question point.
At full TC and an auto reduction to even 8 TC?
You can not reduce fast enuff to get actual results!!

We have been over and over this discussion many times.
You can not have your cake and eat it to!

If you run at High TC?
Aircraft will bite you!!
You can not react fast enuff!!

They travel faster then surface units.
Duh!!

UnderseaLcpl · 06-23-08, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Any Time Compression is a question point.
At full TC and an auto reduction to even 8 TC?
You can not reduce fast enuff to get actual results!!

We have been over and over this discussion many times.
You can not have your cake and eat it to!

If you run at High TC?
Aircraft will bite you!!
You can not react fast enuff!!

They travel faster then surface units.
Duh!!

: (

predavolk · 06-24-08, 02:32 PM

I'm only in 1942 (December), but I can evade aircraft visually at times, definitely with radar in my IXB from 1024x TC. So frankly, I doubt the claims that 1024x et.c leave you helpless to airplanes (if I'm reading that correctly!). If you can't use TC without leaving yourself more or less dead meat to airplanes, this would be one big, ugly, steaming pile of **** for anyone who didn't have 2 years of real-life time to try and simulate the last two years of the war!

On a more positive note, I appreciate the information on radar detection. By all rights, there should be a 2x-3x advantage in detection range for the detector vs. emmitor. That's how it works for modern fighters' radar. It's good to know that's not how it generally works in this sim. Do later radar detectors differntiate between airborne and shipborne radar signals?

danurve · 06-24-08, 02:55 PM

K_C mentioned to have shot down a Mosquito. Good on ya.

I hate those frackin things.

The twin 37's are good guns to have.
If it's not to late in the war get into the gap, or NNE of Norway and go after the convoys up there. Or, get a snort, the late war sensors mod and deal with it. Off the top of my head I don't recall what the anti-radar coating for the snort is but it costs alot of renown and you can't depend on it.

Bosje · 06-24-08, 03:09 PM

use SH3 commander to set time compression on air contacts to 0x

this translates to an immediate pause game upon sighting aircraft, quite useful early in the war (if maybe possibly considered to be slightly cheating

)

It is annoying when you leave port and it is annoying when confronted by a dozen aircraft at once, as you have to keep having to click your way through the pause

but... later in the war, the game will even pause on incoming radar transmissions, if those are from aircraft. you will never die from air attack again. (provided that you slighty competent)

06-23-08, 02:12 AM	#1
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	GWX Radar detectors, technical question. Ok here's a question for those of you who, unlike me, know something about modding/programming beyond QBASIC. I have notcied that upon recieving the warning; "detecting radar signals" and getting a bearing line the end of the line seems to home in on you immediately. Now, I was under the impression that radar emissions could be detected before they were strong enough to generate a return. It would seem this is not the case but is radar modeled this way in GWX 2.1 and if not is it possible to model it that way? Thanks for any help and taking the time to enlighten an idiot. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

06-23-08, 06:54 AM	#2
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	If you detect a radar signal while in time compression, the higher TC the worse it gets in not being able to evade. It is true that the reception of the reflected radio wave takes the same amount of time to return (at 300Km/Sec) and the strength is reduced (energy decreases with the square of the distance). I have had no trouble evading radar in GWX2.1 if I pay attention to time compression, especially in heavily are patrolled areas. __________________ Irish1958

06-23-08, 04:15 PM	#4
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	Since I wasn't in on the development of the sensors, I can't say for sure that you will always detect the radar before being detected. However with extensive testing of the radar coverage in the Bay of Biscay, I found the following: Ships have more trouble detecting you than air cover does; and with time compression up to 128, if I immediately crash dived, the destroyers never detected me. This is not true for air cover. If I ran 16x or above, they detected me. At 8x, if I immediately crash dive, they usually missed me, but not always. Perhaps due to the closing speed of up to 300 knots, you don't have the time to react. This was the testing in 1943. Perhaps in earlier years you could get away with higher time compressions. The air cover radar was extensively tested and retested and set and reset many times. And as the years progressed into 1944 and 1945, it became almost impossible to evade. I hope this helps. __________________ Irish1958

06-24-08, 02:55 PM	#9
danurve The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 1,481 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 3	K_C mentioned to have shot down a Mosquito. Good on ya. I hate those frackin things. The twin 37's are good guns to have. If it's not to late in the war get into the gap, or NNE of Norway and go after the convoys up there. Or, get a snort, the late war sensors mod and deal with it. Off the top of my head I don't recall what the anti-radar coating for the snort is but it costs alot of renown and you can't depend on it. __________________

06-24-08, 03:09 PM	#10
Bosje Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 732 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	use SH3 commander to set time compression on air contacts to 0x this translates to an immediate pause game upon sighting aircraft, quite useful early in the war (if maybe possibly considered to be slightly cheating ) It is annoying when you leave port and it is annoying when confronted by a dozen aircraft at once, as you have to keep having to click your way through the pause but... later in the war, the game will even pause on incoming radar transmissions, if those are from aircraft. you will never die from air attack again. (provided that you slighty competent) __________________ And when an 800-ton Uboat has you by the tits... you listen!

06-23-08, 05:52 PM	#5
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The planes don't always detect you, even in 1944 and even in broad daylight.... It may seem that way because you only detect their radar signals when they are angling at least slightly towards you, otherwise their emissions wouldn't be coming within range of your detection gear at all and you'd never know they were there... If you are of an enquiring turn of mind you might just stay on the surface at 1x tc and see what they do, if they're heading in on a sharp angle they will detect you but if they're not closing too fast they may not respond to the contact.... I do suggest you get the twin rapid-fire 37mm flak gun before you try this, it makes things a bit more equal, I took down 3 planes in 1944 with no damage to my boat, by letting them come to me, going to flank speed and keeping their initial attack run at about 180 degrees, killed a Sunderland, a mosquito and a wellington that way, and had a beaufighter that came within visual (but not flak) range without doing anything... So yes they are annoying, they're supposed to be, but not impossible... and diving as soon as you get the radar detection, and going to at least 25m wiull get you safe most times...it's uncomfortable when your sonardude picks up a warship at that moment though

06-23-08, 07:52 PM	#6
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Any Time Compression is a question point. At full TC and an auto reduction to even 8 TC? You can not reduce fast enuff to get actual results!! We have been over and over this discussion many times. You can not have your cake and eat it to! If you run at High TC? Aircraft will bite you!! You can not react fast enuff!! They travel faster then surface units. Duh!!

06-24-08, 02:32 PM	#8
predavolk Weps Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 369 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm only in 1942 (December), but I can evade aircraft visually at times, definitely with radar in my IXB from 1024x TC. So frankly, I doubt the claims that 1024x et.c leave you helpless to airplanes (if I'm reading that correctly!). If you can't use TC without leaving yourself more or less dead meat to airplanes, this would be one big, ugly, steaming pile of **** for anyone who didn't have 2 years of real-life time to try and simulate the last two years of the war! On a more positive note, I appreciate the information on radar detection. By all rights, there should be a 2x-3x advantage in detection range for the detector vs. emmitor. That's how it works for modern fighters' radar. It's good to know that's not how it generally works in this sim. Do later radar detectors differntiate between airborne and shipborne radar signals?