Time running out for Israeli-Iranian showdown?

[Skybird]

It... could be.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...559925,00.html

The Israeli government no longer believes that sanctions can prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons. A broad consensus in favor of a military strike against Tehran's nuclear facilities -- without the Americans, if necessary -- is beginning to take shape.
(...)
In reaching this conclusion, the Israelis are expressly contradicting the assertion, put forward in a report by US intelligence issued last December, that Iran shut down its nuclear weapons program in 2003. "The Iranians resumed the program at full speed in 2005," says Yossi Kuperwasser, the director for intelligence analysis with Israeli military intelligence at the time.

While the Europeans continue to pin their hopes on diplomacy and are convinced that a negotiated solution that would allow Tehran to save face is still possible, the Israelis already view the UN sanctions regime as a failure. Russia and China, they say, sabotaged the boycott from the very beginning, and even the Europeans have only half-heartedly supported sanctions.

According to the Israelis, companies from Austria and Switzerland have recently signed agreements for the delivery of natural gas with Tehran, and even the German government has only slightly limited trade with the mullah-run regime. "The Iranians don't even feel the sanctions," says Tzachi Hanegbi, chairman of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. According to Hanegbi, the international community will have to unite if it hopes to achieve anything -- "and soon."

[Iceman]

Intresting no one has commented on this.

This is a very serious piece of the middle east puzzle that when plopped down will have an enormous impact on the world economy me thinks not to mention the potential loss of life.

The world appears ripe for kaos.

Put this on top of the Afghanistan leader tired of Taliban peeps coming across from Pakistan and put this all togther and looks very hairy in the middle east almost to the point of boling over.

[Stealth Hunter]

Doubtful they'd get far with their war.

The majority of the Middle-East should not be known for its hospitality towards the Jews and their practices. I should imagine that not only would the conflict involve Iran, but also Afghanistan, Pakistan, and probably the radical portion of Saudi Arabia. You would probably also have a third of the Iraqis (that third being the religious radical portion) participating to fight against the Israelis, but I would not imagine any sort of official Iraqi government/military involvement.

It's a delicate situation over there right now. Thanks to Bush's movements in Iraq, the entire Middle-East has begun to boil. As Shakespeare wrote, "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

[MothBalls]

Iran said that Israel needs to be wiped off the map. If you were Israel would you just sit there and wait for them to make good on their threat? One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day. Seems like the **** is going to hit the fan and everyone will be drug into it.

We need to build some time capsules with our history documented in a way that will last a million years. When the dust settles and another intelligent humanoid species evolves on the planet, they'll have a better chance of survival by making sure their technology doesn't surpass their humanity. Maybe we can keep future civilizations from making the same mistake we are about to make.

I think it's time to call some friends and go share a few pints, while we still can.

[Stealth Hunter]

President Ahmadinejad NEVER said that Israel should be wiped off the map. That's a lie which spread all over the news and Internet. This is what he said:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

I'm going to give you a link to the website that details what he said. It's not a conspirator website or anything like that, but it does have some very interesting and well-researched information. May I suggest you investigate further.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

[CptSimFreak]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

President Ahmadinejad NEVER said that Israel should be wiped off the map. That's a lie which spread all over the news and Internet. This is what he said:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

......

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Iran said that Israel needs to be wiped off the map.

1. Iran has never said that. One person, the President has made statements that have been mistranslated (perhaps even innocently)

cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...nism.22_speech

Wiped off the map is an English Idiom. There is no equivalent idiom in Persian. Therefore it is most unlikely that the President would use the words that would be translated in to the English "wiped off the map".

As a clarification, President Ahmadinejad compared Israel to the Soviet Union in the first speech. This part is often not included in English translations. Now the Soviet Union was not destroyed by military action, it was "destroyed" from within. What President Ahmadinejad meant was that the people of the area would dissolve the state of Israel and form a new jointly governed state representing all the people of the area.

2. President Ahmadinejad has no authority over the military at all. It is confusing as he holds the title of President which usually means the boss. Even if he did mean that he wanted the destruction of Israel (which was not the meaning in Persian) he simply can't do anything about it.

3. The person who does have authority over the military is the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. He has made two separate official declarations that Iran has no intention of attacking Israel. One in 2005 and one in 2007.

So this raises an interesting question

Why do we put credence on the words of the person who does not have control over the military but we don't put credence on the words of the person who does have control over the military?

The answer is that the words of President Ahmadinejad (when mistranslated) support our perception of Iran and the words of the Supreme Leader Khamenei refute our perception of Iran.

However if the media keeps repeating that Iran wants to destroy Israel enough times, it becomes a "fact".

[August]

So when they chant "Death to Israel" or "Death to America" they don't really mean it in a threatening way?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

So when they chant "Death to Israel" or "Death to America" they don't really mean it in a threatening way?

Probably not, it is just an emotional outburst as is common in that culture.

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Probably not, it is just an emotional outburst as is common in that culture.

That's a problem, because it's common in my culture to take stated threats like that very seriously. Especially when they have a history of violence to go with it.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

That's a problem, because it's common in my culture to take stated threats like that very seriously. Especially when they have a history of violence to go with it.

This is why it is very important that you don't evaluate another culture by applying your cultural biases.

"Especially when they have a history of violence to go with it."

The funny thing is that this is probably what the Iranians are saying about us.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by August

That's a problem, because it's common in my culture to take stated threats like that very seriously. Especially when they have a history of violence to go with it.

Tough it out.:p

[SUBMAN1]

Am i reading this right? Are some people here advocating that the Iranians are stupid and have no idea how their words are going to be interpreted? For real? I think i have some Iranian friends in the US that would be most offended by your statements.

Not buying it in the slightest. These people are not stupid, nor ignorant. They mean what they say.

Political Correctness is invading this forum harshly.

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Am i reading this right? Are some people here advocating that the Iranians are stupid and have no idea how their words are going to be interpreted? For real? I think i have some Iranian friends in the US that would be most offended by your statements.

Not buying it in the slightest. These people are not stupid, nor ignorant. They mean what they say.

Political Correctness is invading this forum harshly.

-S

But they've been saying these things for a while. They are very far right on the political scale and are playing to their base.

They are smart people. Certainly smart enough to realize what would bring about their destruction.

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

But they've been saying these things for a while. They are very far right on the political scale and are playing to their base.

They are smart people. Certainly smart enough to realize what would bring about their destruction.

PD

Yes and no. The are not playing to their base as much as you think however. These are indimidation tactics for Israel, and to a lesser extend, the world. The Ayatolla doesn't care much about playing to the base since they are under his thumb already, and as such, under the presidents thumb in the name of Islam. These words are from the President of the country to the world, and the Iran's neighbors. To inspire hatred and acts of violence to land they see as theirs, which is land the Jews occupy in their minds. The Jews sit on Persian land, and that is how they see it till the end of time.

-S