Russian active sonar

[msalama]

S!

I'm playing a Black Sea campaign at the moment, and it seems that Uncle Joe's boys don't really have it together when it comes to active sonar. They usually lose me once I'm at 120m or so, but I'm just wondering whether their systems really were that primitive...

Does anyone have any real historical information about the system(s) they used, such as their cutoff depth / range and the downward angle etcetera? I've googled for clues but have hit absolutely nothing so far!

Thanks for any infos you can send my way ladies and gents

[Hitman]

Can't provide links but I have readed a book about german subs in the Black Sea where it stated that soviet sonar technology was not as good as the british or american one. Fact is, even some decades later, in the cold war, their electronics where a step or two behind the western ones until the late 70s.

Couple that with the smaller sonar profile of the Type II and you have a more or less realistic situation.

[Tombow]

Some russian ships were fitted with the "Дракон-128C" (Dragon) active sonar (either a 1:1 copy or a straight british ASDIC). From what I've dug up, at least one destroyer of the Black Sea Fleet has been fitted with it:

http://flot.sevastopol.info/ship/esminets/sposobniy.htm (link in Russian)


This page (link in russian too):
http://forums.airbase.ru/2002/01/t8788--esmincy.html
mentions some of the "Project 7"-destroyers (the backbone of the russian destroyer Fleet in WWII) having been fitted with the Dragon at one point or another. More detailed info might be found here (following links in russian):

http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...6_02/index.htm
(monography on the "Project 7" destroyers)

maybe more here:
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...7_06/index.htm
(same, but for the improved 7У version)

and here:
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...8_06/index.htm
(monography on the Leningrad-Class destroyer leaders)

More books from the same website mention also certain russian submarines of the Pike and S-Class being outfitted with ASDIC late in the war (predominantly in the Northern Fleet)

Sorry, I am too busy/lazy to dig out and translate the detailed info. Also, these sources leave one uncertainity - was the Dragon just an ASDIC Copy or a russian development based on it and if it was a copy, was there also a genuine russian-developed ASDIC as well.

As for the popular sub hunters of the MO (Малый охотник - literally "small hunter") class (deployed in large quantities in the Black Sea, I didn't find any info on them being fitted with ASDIC.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Doctor Haider]

I have a monography about the Pike class submarines (in Russian) that describe the Drakon as the ASDIC copy.

Another monography I have (about the project 7 class destroyers) also states that Drakon was actually leand-leased British ASDIC. Also this monography says that several sonars of German origin were bought just prior the war and installed on some 7s but there is no exact information about the perfomance of these sonars in Red Navy.

[Tombow]

@Doctor Haider: perhaps we are citing the same sources? (see the links in this and in my first post)

A bit of off-topic, but since these monographies were mentioned, here are the link to some good online reading (in russian though):

1. Russian S-Class submarines (roughly equals Typ IX):
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...0_02/index.htm

2. Pike class submarines production series III, Vbis and Vbis2:
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...2_02/index.htm


3. Pike class submarines production series X and Xbis:
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...2_04/index.htm

All detailed monographies describing history, construction, technical details and more or less complete writeups about the fate of each boat. Makes a nice reading for long evenings (if one speaks russian of course). If enough interest exists, maybe I could attempt translating.

[msalama]

Thank you for the links and information guys, seems extremely interesting! Will go through it all later today after I get off from work.

Fact is, even some decades later, in the cold war, their electronics where a step or two behind the western ones until the late 70s.

And even after that as a matter of fact, because military applications aside the Eastern Block actually never caught up with the West. Not that they didn't try though: here's an interesting article from an Eastern German magazine for agitators stressing the importance of using and developing microelectronics in the GDR -

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/waswie1.htm#anchor1012384

S! again guys, and thanks once more for the links etcetera.

[Doctor Haider]

Originally Posted by Tombow

@Doctor Haider: perhaps we are citing the same sources? (see the links in this and in my first post)

The monography I posess is written by Balakin and Morozov, the second author also took part in writing the paperworks published on Wunderwaffe. But my paper monography is significantly newer.

[Doctor Haider]

Originally Posted by Tombow

1. Russian S-Class submarines (roughly equals Typ IX):
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Maga...0_02/index.htm

I should also note that the Russian S-Class and German Type I were created over the same prototype, the submarine built in early 30s by the IvS for Spain.