Bug? or Intelligent design...

[ViperU48]

Okay, running GWX 2.1, SH3C, and a few other graphical/sound mods.

I understand that GWX 2.1 removed the feature where renown was awarded for reaching a patrol grid. With that in mind:

I'm playing at 100% realism and always return to port, right at the birth.

I sink ~32,000 tonnes of enemy shipping and get only 930 reknown points??

Does this seem like an appropriate amount for that kind of tonnage? At this rate it would take over 11 patrols for me to reach the KptLtn promotion level, which seems quite inaccurate.


...hmm, I was told to return to a different port (Lorient from Willey) mid patrol, does anyone know if that may be the cause for my low tonnage?

Been looking on the forums for a bit and can't find any similar situations with GWX2.1, so any input would greatly be appreciated!

-Thanks!

[TarJak]

It's not the tonnage that specifies the renown you get in GWX it's the ship type itelsef that has a renown value associated with it. Therefore you could conceiveably sing several small ships adding up to 32k tons but get less renown than sinking a 32k ton battlewagon.

[ViperU48]

I see, this does make sense to me, thanks for the quick response TarJak!

2 of my kills were 8000+ tonnes, does this still seem like the appropriate tonnage value for this patrol?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm starting to think that because I was ordered to a new base mid-patrol, SH3 may think that I didnt return to my "home base" and not award the full amount. Does this seem logical?


Thanks for any help/insight.

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by ViperU48

I see, this does make sense to me, thanks for the quick response TarJak!

2 of my kills were 8000+ tonnes, does this still seem like the appropriate tonnage value for this patrol?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm starting to think that because I was ordered to a new base mid-patrol, SH3 may think that I didnt return to my "home base" and not award the full amount. Does this seem logical?


Thanks for any help/insight.

What ship types did you sink? I just finished a patrol where I sunk 96,000+ tons of shipping and was awarded around 2,300 in renown at 74% realism. If I remember rightly this tonnage included an Auxiliary Cruiser, 4 Large Merchants, 2 Ore Carriers, 1 Large Tanker and a few smaller vessels.

Returning to home base has no impact on renown.

Nemo

[predavolk]

I also believe that 2.1 removed the "free" 500 renown points for reaching your patrol area and patrolling it. If true, it's not a move a support. I think that realistically, just getting out and back was worth some reward as it's just about the best that the majority of the captains did.

Otherwise, your total reknown seems a little low for 32K, but not out of the realms of possibility. I usually get about 2,500 renown for a 70K patrol. Shooting bigger ships, especially warships, helps. But smaller ships add up too. I'm also pretty sure that there's a list somewhere of how much renown each ship gives, either in the 2.1 manual or the online community manual.

[Jimbuna]

You only get renown for what you sink or shoot out of the sky.

The higher your realism setting, the more points your awarded.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by predavolk

I also believe that 2.1 removed the "free" 500 renown points for reaching your patrol area and patrolling it. If true, it's not a move a support. I think that realistically, just getting out and back was worth some reward as it's just about the best that the majority of the captains did.

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it... but medals and awards aren't handed out for simply following orders. You must do something above the call of duty to obtain them.

That's how we made GWX to be. (...and we intended to do it sooner... but it slipped under the radar in light of more important changes.)

There were only 144 Knights Crosses handed out to U-boatmen. There were roughly 40,000 men that were sailors in the U-bootwaffe.

If you were given all the good stuff like candy... it would become rapidly pointless and boring.

Have a little patience.

[predavolk]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it... but medals and awards aren't handed out for simply following orders. You must do something above the call of duty to obtain them.

There were only 144 Knights Crosses handed out to U-boatmen. There were roughly 40,000 men that were sailors in the U-bootwaffe.

If you were given all the good stuff like candy... it would become rapidly pointless and boring.

Have a little patience.

Yes, but renown isn't medals and awards. I agree completely with you on that aspect, but general competence in following orders is enough to move up ranks and in the case of uboats, was pretty common fare. It was only a rare few who were consistently able (and lucky?) enough to regularly rack up kills on every voyage, especially later in the war.

Believe me, there's a LOT that's still VERY unrealistic about GWX 2.1 . Then again, you probably don't need me to tell you that. But I did, and I will also state the obvious that it's nearly impossible to make ANY realistic sim of ANYTHING, let alone a part of WWII whom the majority of the participants are dead! AND it's probably equally worth stating the obvious that realism aside, organizing a team to create a detailed, complex, and FREE mod is a herculean task. I was a product development manager at Corel, so I can appreciate how tough it is to design or mod software with a professional, PAID team in one building, let alone what you guys managed! I just think that the de-emphasis on patrolling a particular area isn't the best idea. Then again, I think the ideal solution would have been to get more specific, more relevant, and more accurate orders from BdU, which is well beyond the scope of a mod.

So please take my comments as informed (if not always guaranteed accurate), constructive criticism, and please accept my sincere gratitude and appreciation for the job you and your GWX team have done. It is a GREAT mod.

[The Bad Wolf]

I agree that you shouldn't get a reward for doing your duty. I would imagine in real life you wouldn't dare, not to follow orders, because of "honour "or "sense of duty" or "the probable fatal consequences". The first two, depends on the individual, but the last one isn't represented in the game at all. Pity you can't have say -10,000 renown for failing duty or even career end, but this is not possible without the "reason" for failure.

[Tessa]

To get a RK from just the patrol renown, assuming that you don't sink a single ship would take 30 patrols in itself minimum; don't think that'll ever happen. Anyone that could survive that many patrols with that luck in a backwards sort of would should get a RK, but as has been pointed out the kaleun hasn't done anything to really earn it. As a corralary, the hundreds of Allied pilots that flew patrol sorties looking for u-boats to keep the convoy routes clear frequently never saw action; especially prior to early 1943. Their actions (while not everyone had a career that had them racking up silver stars or DSC's) every area was important, in many instances finding nothing was just as useful intel as finding a u-boat stalking a convy route. This was vital to winning the war in the Atlantic despite sending out (in retrospect) hundreds of sorties that weren't necessary but had to be done in order to ensure completeness. All those pilots did their job successfully despite never seeing any action at all for some of them.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by predavolk

Yes, but renown isn't medals and awards. I agree completely with you on that aspect, but general competence in following orders is enough to move up ranks and in the case of uboats, was pretty common fare. It was only a rare few who were consistently able (and lucky?) enough to regularly rack up kills on every voyage, especially later in the war.

But it is your renown accumulation that determines whether these awards are handed out in the game. Hence our decision.

GWX is GWX.
Not all will be happy with everything that was done.
There is absolutely no way We could design it so
everyone would be happy.
So We designed it so We were happy.
S3D, Mini Tweaker, and Hex, allow you to adjust as you see fit.
There are also other mods that adjust things.
Find or fix what you wish.
It's your game after all.
But We ain't gonna make it to fit your way.

[Reece]

In RL a Ritterkreuz was awarded at first to any commander that sunk 100,000 tons or more, however this amount was relaxed in mid 40 & some were getting the award for only 46,000 tons by late september, (Hitlers U-Boat war by Clay Blair) however tonnage in SH3 is much easier to get so GWX team adjusted the renown to reflect otherwise everyone would recieve an RT after just 1 or 2 patrols, too easy!

[Jimbuna]

People might also want to bear in mind that it wasn't all the doing of GWX.....the renown for returning to port has never worked (even in stock/vanilla).

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by Reece

In RL a Ritterkreuz was awarded at first to any commander that sunk 100,000 tons or more, however this amount was relaxed in mid 40 & some were getting the award for only 46,000 tons by late september, (Hitlers U-Boat war by Clay Blair) however tonnage in SH3 is much easier to get so GWX team adjusted the renown to reflect otherwise everyone would recieve an RT after just 1 or 2 patrols, too easy!

A great pair of books that's a invaluable source of cold hard facts about the way things really were.

It's a shame that several of the great early war aces never got anything higher than the oak leaves as the swords and diamonds didn't become available until after they were sunk. While those that did receive the swords and/or diamonds were great Kaleuns, its a shame that hunters like Prien weren't given the sword/diamonds posthmusly as a tribute to their great skills and achievements that would have definitely earned them such had they been available.