Sinkage Avoidance

Captretman · 05-03-08, 11:56 PM

Status - 2nd mission, East China Sea. Mission completed. 20, 000 tons sunk.

03/11/1942, 0415 Hrs. Position 128 Deg., 70 Min. E, 28 Deg. 32 Min. N. Heading 50 Deg. true. Sonar contact with 5 ship convoy, 3 Fubuki type destroyers and 2 modern 20, 000 ton liners, closing.

I've done several submerged sonar approaches and periscope attacks and have sunk one of the liners, but always sustain heavy damage or get sunk by subsequent escort attacks. I've been running silent after diving to 165 ft. with (not enough) evasive manuevers.

Any advice would be appreciated.

UnderseaLcpl · 05-04-08, 02:07 AM

I understand if you are loathe to take advice from a sh4 noob captretman, but my greatest success againt destroyers has been by positioning myself at periscope depth at a right angle to the destroyer's attack vector. This takes a bit of practice as the DD's will vary attack angles based upon your speed and position relative to them, much like a torp solution. When the DD is 1000 meters or so you want to be at 90 or 270 degrees bearing from it approximately. Allow it to approach you whilst you are at 1/3. When the DD closes to 400 yards or less order full rudder in the direction of its approach and flank speed. This should allow you to scrape by its DC attack with 40-120 yards to spare. Next order full rudder in the opposite direction and 1/3 speed. This should put you in a brilliant position for a 90 degree AOB shot with the DD moving at 12 knots.
In the case of multiple DD's this can take more time as they seem to have a collision avoidance protocol where one DD will make an offensive run and then the next one in decent proximity with a good angle will attempt a dc run. Ultimately however, one will always end up attempting to circle across your bow and usually they are at 12 knots.
If you fire a torpedo at 4-6 foot depth high speed with CI fuse whilst the offending DC is 15 degrees from your zero with your rudder at zero you can produce a hit amidships about 75% of the time.
The aforementioned advice is my primary doctrine when engaging DD's and my first priority is to eliminate escorts before any other vessels. Generally I just calculate a solution for a 90 degree AOB attack on a Minesuke DD at 0 kts and use my 15 degree strat to score a hit. If you are a fan of TDC i see no reson why it couldn't be used if you are fast. As an idiot, I'm a deck gun man myself, after using the above to eliminate escorts.
Good luck and I hope this helps a little.

gAiNiAc · 05-04-08, 02:12 AM

It sounds like to me you're being detected before you realize it.

What's the water depth at that location?

How long are you keeping your periscope exposed?

How fast are you going?

The stock easy answer and approach is to get out ahead of the convoy, submerge deep and go silent, even all stop. After the initial destroyer screen passes over you rise to periscope depth for your attack.

LukeFF · 05-04-08, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gAiNiAc

The stock easy answer and approach is to get out ahead of the convoy, submerge deep and go silent, even all stop. After the initial destroyer screen passes over you rise to periscope depth for your attack.

That's NOT what you want to do. Placing your sub directly ahead of the convoy's path puts your sub in the search cone of the enemy's passive sonar. The better answer is to get ahead AND to the side of the convoy and (naturally) keep the periscope up for only short periods of time.

UnderseaLcpl · 05-04-08, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gAiNiAc

The stock easy answer and approach is to get out ahead of the convoy, submerge deep and go silent, even all stop. After the initial destroyer screen passes over you rise to periscope depth for your attack.

I'm an idiot but in 1.4 it seems the DD's will respond to your attack and triangulate, quadrangulate, quintangulate your position and respond within about 5 minutes after the attack. IMHO sink the escorts then have a field day.

MonTana_Prussian · 05-04-08, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Quote:

Originally Posted by gAiNiAc

The stock easy answer and approach is to get out ahead of the convoy, submerge deep and go silent, even all stop. After the initial destroyer screen passes over you rise to periscope depth for your attack.

That's NOT what you want to do. Placing your sub directly ahead of the convoy's path puts your sub in the search cone of the enemy's passive sonar. The better answer is to get ahead AND to the side of the convoy and (naturally) keep the periscope up for only short periods of time.

Exactly right. I have found this to be the best attack method. It's not always possible,but I try to do it.

Char · 05-04-08, 08:59 AM

Get one of the "Super Mods",The escorts in RFB seem a little bit easier to spoof(Thats just what I have experienced,A more Seasoned vet will have more knowledge about this stuff)

gAiNiAc · 05-04-08, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Quote:

Originally Posted by gAiNiAc

The stock easy answer and approach is to get out ahead of the convoy, submerge deep and go silent, even all stop. After the initial destroyer screen passes over you rise to periscope depth for your attack.

That's NOT what you want to do. Placing your sub directly ahead of the convoy's path puts your sub in the search cone of the enemy's passive sonar. The better answer is to get ahead AND to the side of the convoy and (naturally) keep the periscope up for only short periods of time.

Nah..........

You do need to get in between the lead ships of the screen but you don't need to stay to the side of the convoy. As long as you maintain a small sonar profile you won't have a problem.

05-03-08, 11:56 PM	#1
Captretman Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sinkage Avoidance Status - 2nd mission, East China Sea. Mission completed. 20, 000 tons sunk. 03/11/1942, 0415 Hrs. Position 128 Deg., 70 Min. E, 28 Deg. 32 Min. N. Heading 50 Deg. true. Sonar contact with 5 ship convoy, 3 Fubuki type destroyers and 2 modern 20, 000 ton liners, closing. I've done several submerged sonar approaches and periscope attacks and have sunk one of the liners, but always sustain heavy damage or get sunk by subsequent escort attacks. I've been running silent after diving to 165 ft. with (not enough) evasive manuevers. Any advice would be appreciated.

05-04-08, 02:07 AM	#2
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	personal advice I understand if you are loathe to take advice from a sh4 noob captretman, but my greatest success againt destroyers has been by positioning myself at periscope depth at a right angle to the destroyer's attack vector. This takes a bit of practice as the DD's will vary attack angles based upon your speed and position relative to them, much like a torp solution. When the DD is 1000 meters or so you want to be at 90 or 270 degrees bearing from it approximately. Allow it to approach you whilst you are at 1/3. When the DD closes to 400 yards or less order full rudder in the direction of its approach and flank speed. This should allow you to scrape by its DC attack with 40-120 yards to spare. Next order full rudder in the opposite direction and 1/3 speed. This should put you in a brilliant position for a 90 degree AOB shot with the DD moving at 12 knots. In the case of multiple DD's this can take more time as they seem to have a collision avoidance protocol where one DD will make an offensive run and then the next one in decent proximity with a good angle will attempt a dc run. Ultimately however, one will always end up attempting to circle across your bow and usually they are at 12 knots. If you fire a torpedo at 4-6 foot depth high speed with CI fuse whilst the offending DC is 15 degrees from your zero with your rudder at zero you can produce a hit amidships about 75% of the time. The aforementioned advice is my primary doctrine when engaging DD's and my first priority is to eliminate escorts before any other vessels. Generally I just calculate a solution for a 90 degree AOB attack on a Minesuke DD at 0 kts and use my 15 degree strat to score a hit. If you are a fan of TDC i see no reson why it couldn't be used if you are fast. As an idiot, I'm a deck gun man myself, after using the above to eliminate escorts. Good luck and I hope this helps a little.

05-04-08, 02:12 AM	#3
gAiNiAc Weps Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 369 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	It sounds like to me you're being detected before you realize it. What's the water depth at that location? How long are you keeping your periscope exposed? How fast are you going? The stock easy answer and approach is to get out ahead of the convoy, submerge deep and go silent, even all stop. After the initial destroyer screen passes over you rise to periscope depth for your attack.

05-04-08, 08:59 AM	#7
Char Medic Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Albany,NY Posts: 160 Downloads: 199 Uploads: 0	Get one of the "Super Mods",The escorts in RFB seem a little bit easier to spoof(Thats just what I have experienced,A more Seasoned vet will have more knowledge about this stuff)