Wimpy Escorts

Robert Murphy · 03-20-08, 11:28 PM

Has anyone had a session with SHIV where they attack a convoy then have to make a narrow escape against aggressive escorts? It seems too easy: I submerge, attack, I hear a few pings and then they quit. I think I've been depth charged twice--all missed.

This game lacks drama...

Robert

Zantham · 03-20-08, 11:33 PM

I've attacked convoys firing 4 torps forward, turning 180 degrees to line up my stern tubes at ahead full (periscope depth), popped off the last two torps, then motored it out of there without going deep. Escorts just sat still. Once even passed within a hundred meters (by accident) in front of a destroyer, with no reaction.

There are mods out that will really alleviate this behavior however. I know Trigger Maru vamps up the enemy's aggressiveness, and probably RFB does as well.

Ducimus · 03-20-08, 11:35 PM

>>This game lacks drama...

It used to.

TDK1044 · 03-21-08, 08:57 AM

The unmodded game lacks Drama. Run a mod like TMO and the escorts will kick your ass if you're not careful.

Rockin Robbins · 03-21-08, 11:35 AM

Just try it with TMO. You won't GET TO a convoy guarded by four or more escorts, especially the hated subchasers. If you're not a fancy dancer, they'll be the hunters, you the trophy on their wall. As a refugee from GWX I can tell you that TMO escorts are not trivial.

nfitzsimmons · 03-21-08, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Just try it with TMO. You won't GET TO a convoy guarded by four or more escorts, especially the hated subchasers. If you're not a fancy dancer, they'll be the hunters, you the trophy on their wall. As a refugee from GWX I can tell you that TMO escorts are not trivial.

Second that!!!

Midnight Hunter · 03-21-08, 12:01 PM

Agreed TMO is the way to go for escorts that are nasty. I found a convoy with a DD and a Sweeper as the only two escorts, needless to say I figured it would be like shooting fish in a barrell Well 9 real time hours later, I have finally managed to escape the depthcharging and am on a slow and steady course out of dodge. They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot

Give it a go and see if you like the escorts after that

Ducimus · 03-21-08, 01:22 PM

>>They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot
>>

Thermal layer in SH4 is not a magical barrier through which no sonar may pass. The thermal layer only reduces the strength of the signal the AI is recieving. I guess you could say it sort functions like a muffler, or a silencer for a gun.

Rockin Robbins · 03-21-08, 02:47 PM

...a magical barrier through which no light passes, in TMO. Ducimus' evil airplanes will hunt you out, spotting you at periscope depth, sometimes far below periscope depth just to keep you awake. Once they spot you they will bomb you and then call all their many friends to drop presents to you also.

You will be begging for boredom.

War is hell. You are lunch. Fear returns to the Silent Hunter series.

Midnight Hunter · 03-21-08, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

>>They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot
>>

Thermal layer in SH4 is not a magical barrier through which no sonar may pass. The thermal layer only reduces the strength of the signal the AI is recieving. I guess you could say it sort functions like a muffler, or a silencer for a gun.

Yeah I know it isn't like a wall but I figure running silent (heck even stopped) would atelast throw them off the scent a bit but they just keep coming. Not that I mind, I dont want a cakewalk..

MarkShot · 03-21-08, 04:04 PM

Just curious - Is the escort AI any better in SH4 than SH3?

It seems that for SH3 challenge can be increased by tweaking sensors sensitivity and object noise, but object behavior is a hard coded given. The range of AI behavior by AI escorts individually and collectively is rather limited when compared to such classic titles as AOD and SHCE.

One of the nicest features of SC/DW by Sonalysts was the use of "doctrine files" which is interpreted programming language that describes AI object behavior. The SCXIIc mod for SC practically trippled the number of lines logic defined for surface ships, AI subs, and torps.

For example, in the stock SC game, AI subs would evade an inbound torp (smart weapon) by simply trying to outrun it. This on the whole tended not to be very effective. SCXIIc AI sub extend away from an inbound fish diagonally; placing emphasis on getting out of the seeker's detection cone. Totally, changes how the game plays. Just one example of how powerful such a design of AI is for those who want to mod.

kikn79 · 03-21-08, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Murphy

Has anyone had a session with SHIV where they attack a convoy then have to make a narrow escape against aggressive escorts? It seems too easy: I submerge, attack, I hear a few pings and then they quit. I think I've been depth charged twice--all missed.

This game lacks drama...

Robert

Have a go at Bungo Pete and see if you still think it lacks drama. Oh, wait. You won't be alive to tell.... :rotfl:

Deuce, Why don't you introduce Mr. Murphy to the old boy.....

Chuck

Meyngray · 03-21-08, 04:21 PM

On my second mission, found a convoy of 2 light destroyers and one t3 tanker. Got the tanker with 2 (g1?) @ 32ft, and after that, the escorts slowed to a stop. Easy target @ 2000.

my realism is only 58%

Could that be it?

Robert Murphy · 03-21-08, 07:31 PM

What's the TMO mod exactly and where can I download it?

Thanks for your advice Gentleman. ;-)

Robert

JREX53 · 03-21-08, 07:54 PM

Look in the SH4 Mods Forum.

Trigger Maru Overhaul (TMO) Link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330

Run Silent Run Deep (RSRDC) Link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467

Hope this helps!!

03-20-08, 11:28 PM	#1
Robert Murphy Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 6 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Wimpy Escorts Has anyone had a session with SHIV where they attack a convoy then have to make a narrow escape against aggressive escorts? It seems too easy: I submerge, attack, I hear a few pings and then they quit. I think I've been depth charged twice--all missed. This game lacks drama... Robert __________________ \"There are those who bring joy wherever they go. Then there are those who bring joy whenever they go.\" -Oscar Wilde

03-21-08, 11:35 AM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	TMO Just try it with TMO. You won't GET TO a convoy guarded by four or more escorts, especially the hated subchasers. If you're not a fancy dancer, they'll be the hunters, you the trophy on their wall. As a refugee from GWX I can tell you that TMO escorts are not trivial. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-21-08, 02:47 PM	#9
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	And neither is the water's surface ...a magical barrier through which no light passes, in TMO. Ducimus' evil airplanes will hunt you out, spotting you at periscope depth, sometimes far below periscope depth just to keep you awake. Once they spot you they will bomb you and then call all their many friends to drop presents to you also. You will be begging for boredom. War is hell. You are lunch. Fear returns to the Silent Hunter series. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-21-08, 04:04 PM	#11
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Just curious - Is the escort AI any better in SH4 than SH3? It seems that for SH3 challenge can be increased by tweaking sensors sensitivity and object noise, but object behavior is a hard coded given. The range of AI behavior by AI escorts individually and collectively is rather limited when compared to such classic titles as AOD and SHCE. One of the nicest features of SC/DW by Sonalysts was the use of "doctrine files" which is interpreted programming language that describes AI object behavior. The SCXIIc mod for SC practically trippled the number of lines logic defined for surface ships, AI subs, and torps. For example, in the stock SC game, AI subs would evade an inbound torp (smart weapon) by simply trying to outrun it. This on the whole tended not to be very effective. SCXIIc AI sub extend away from an inbound fish diagonally; placing emphasis on getting out of the seeker's detection cone. Totally, changes how the game plays. Just one example of how powerful such a design of AI is for those who want to mod. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

03-21-08, 04:21 PM	#13
Meyngray Bilge Rat Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	They stopped for me! On my second mission, found a convoy of 2 light destroyers and one t3 tanker. Got the tanker with 2 (g1?) @ 32ft, and after that, the escorts slowed to a stop. Easy target @ 2000. my realism is only 58% Could that be it?

03-20-08, 11:33 PM	#2
Zantham 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 283 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	I've attacked convoys firing 4 torps forward, turning 180 degrees to line up my stern tubes at ahead full (periscope depth), popped off the last two torps, then motored it out of there without going deep. Escorts just sat still. Once even passed within a hundred meters (by accident) in front of a destroyer, with no reaction. There are mods out that will really alleviate this behavior however. I know Trigger Maru vamps up the enemy's aggressiveness, and probably RFB does as well.

03-20-08, 11:35 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	>>This game lacks drama... It used to.

03-21-08, 08:57 AM	#4
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	The unmodded game lacks Drama. Run a mod like TMO and the escorts will kick your ass if you're not careful.

03-21-08, 12:01 PM	#7
Midnight Hunter Mate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 56 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Agreed TMO is the way to go for escorts that are nasty. I found a convoy with a DD and a Sweeper as the only two escorts, needless to say I figured it would be like shooting fish in a barrell Well 9 real time hours later, I have finally managed to escape the depthcharging and am on a slow and steady course out of dodge. They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot Give it a go and see if you like the escorts after that

03-21-08, 01:22 PM	#8
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	>>They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot >> Thermal layer in SH4 is not a magical barrier through which no sonar may pass. The thermal layer only reduces the strength of the signal the AI is recieving. I guess you could say it sort functions like a muffler, or a silencer for a gun.

03-21-08, 07:31 PM	#14
Robert Murphy Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 6 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Er, Sounds Good, But... What's the TMO mod exactly and where can I download it? Thanks for your advice Gentleman. ;-) Robert __________________ \"There are those who bring joy wherever they go. Then there are those who bring joy whenever they go.\" -Oscar Wilde

03-21-08, 07:54 PM	#15
JREX53 Frogman Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 300 Downloads: 353 Uploads: 13	Look in the SH4 Mods Forum. Trigger Maru Overhaul (TMO) Link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330 Run Silent Run Deep (RSRDC) Link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467 Hope this helps!! __________________ Jim