Hitler would be proud

03-17-08, 05:02 PM

I really think the the English goverment has lost the plot - Now the policewant to DNA database children as young as 5 if they misbehave so as to identify "Future Criminals" and the Goverment seems to think it's a good idea

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...67-401,00.html

Whats next , type kids by race to ID future terrorists , Neo nazi's or any other group that the police and goverment are worried or annoyed at?

sorry if the thread title offends but this is something that would've been fitted right into some of the nazi eugenic's programs..

Kapitan_Phillips · 03-17-08, 05:03 PM

It doesnt offend me. This is why I'm getting out and having my kids someplace else.

Yahoshua · 03-17-08, 05:15 PM

Looks like the U.S. is heading down the same road England is (we've got all 3 of our current candidates vying for the lead no less!!).

A small piece of land and the idea of my own little country sounds like a more attractive idea as the months go by.

Knipper · 03-17-08, 05:25 PM

Tell you what Darius, it's the grown-ups who should be DNA'd so they can be identified as 'Future Criminal Parents'. My wife works with 'difficult' kids and she reckons it's easy to see how they got that way and 99 times out of a hundred, it's because their parent's don't give a toss about them. And you're right, we've lost the plot on the whole civil liberties thing. If I go into town (and Bath is a relatively small one) and stroll around for an hour, by the time I get back, I'll probably be on upwards of 50 CCTV camera's. They're even rolling out cameras that allow the operators to yell at you if you're spotted dropping litter or something (not as I do). I think if I was younger, I'd be on the same boat out of here as Kapitan Phillips. Anyway, I hear there are a load of jobs going at the Ministry of Truth for loyal Proles like me,

so I think I'll stick around.

Skybird · 03-17-08, 05:33 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

One of the most underrated and underestimated movies I know of. It matches the vision of "Blade Runner" nicely.

And somehow i feel this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrium_%28film%29
aims for comparable things.

Sad, but impressive movies. Impressive, but sad.

Knipper · 03-17-08, 05:45 PM

Can't say I've heard of either of those Skybird, but I'll certainly check them out. Thanks for the refs, they sound right up my street.

Incidentally, re Steed's quote which you now use for your signature, have you ever read 'A Canticle For Leibowitz', by Walter M Miller Jr? It's about that sort of thing, as well as being post-apocalypse. Sounds like it might be one for you.

AntEater · 03-17-08, 06:08 PM

Seems the brits are way ahead of us in this one. It always amazes me how the very country that invented civil liberties is so hell bent on abolishing them.
CCTV in Germany is (sofar) limited to busy downtown metro stations and some squares.
The constitutional court has recently made some quite interesting decisions on public surveilance which should at least slow down the increase.

Generally, regardless of country, sometimes I ask myself:
Who's actually in favor of all this? I've never seen anyone either in real life nor in any kind of internet discussion who actually favored data mining, surveilance and all that.
Yet these measures increase year by year, despite being opposed by practically every educated citizen in every nation in question.
Of course there are the "tabloid reading uneducated masses", but these people are mostly indifferent and if you bother to ask them they're mostly opposed as well, regardless of what the tabloids tell them.
Who's the driving force behind this? The industry? Older generation politicians who can't handle progress? Is it preparation for a totalitarian society? I doubt it since today's politicians can't think long term.

Skybird · 03-17-08, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntEater

Seems the brits are way ahead of us in this one. It always amazes me how the very country that invented civil liberties is so hell bent on abolishing them.
CCTV in Germany is (sofar) limited to busy downtown metro stations and some squares.
The constitutional court has recently made some quite interesting decisions on public surveilance which should at least slow down the increase.

Generally, regardless of country, sometimes I ask myself:
Who's actually in favor of all this? I've never seen anyone either in real life nor in any kind of internet discussion who actually favored data mining, surveilance and all that.
Yet these measures increase year by year, despite being opposed by practically every educated citizen in every nation in question.
Of course there are the "tabloid reading uneducated masses", but these people are mostly indifferent and if you bother to ask them they're mostly opposed as well, regardless of what the tabloids tell them.
Who's the driving force behind this? The industry? Older generation politicians who can't handle progress? Is it preparation for a totalitarian society? I doubt it since today's politicians can't think long term.

I recommend to read Machiavelli: Discorsi, 1st book, chapter 2: "How many types of states there are, and to which the Roman state belongs" Reading that short chapter immediately reminded me of the questions you ask, and the way in which I see America having turned into a plutocracy, and Europe turning into an oligarchy, and all history of states and societies always seem to move in cycles.

I recommend the whole book in fact. I started to read it two weeks ago (already having red an in-depth biography about him longer time ago): a real eye-opener. Cannot understand that sinister reputation around the figure of Machiavelli. The guy was a reasonable thinker and an unerring observer - necessarily he comes to other conclusions by that than wishful dreamer and hopeful idealists. That's all sinistre about him. Admitted, realism sometimes leads you to tough conclusions, and that often is already too much for many. But that is their problem - not Machiavellis.

kiwi_2005 · 03-17-08, 06:55 PM

I could just see it now.

DNA data programed into human database with warning comments:

Asian born: Known to be bad tippers, will not accept a bargain when they say its 1 dollar its 1 dollar nothing less although more is sometimes accepted. Knows Kung fu staying at a distance is recommended, breeds like rabbits could be a possible future threat. Positives: Experts in tunnel warfare.

Black born: Has revolved over the centuries to become a simple hunter/gatherer to experts in their own enigma coded lanuguage known as Rap & masters at firing handguns sideways. Positives: Would make brilliant enemy vehicle hijackers.

White Born: Tends to drum into other races how supreme they are and if it wasn't for them your be all f**ked. Positives: If it wasn't for them we did all be f**ked.

Jewish Born: Rumor has it this race has discovered immorality hard to exterminate, not to be under-estimated attack them will only lead to heavy losses with no hope of a peaceful outcome. Avoid. Positives: Only real enemy is Satan. Threat very low unless Muslim or German.

German Born: Also class as White but once claim to be the Master race. Should be monitored 24/7. When they talk of peace war is about to commense. Masters at deceiving their own. Postives: Will support their leader right to the last man.

Kiwi Born: Greenpeace. Anti-nuclear. Extermination is recommended. :p

Knipper · 03-17-08, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

: Rumor has it this race has discovered immorality hard to exterminate, not to be under-estimated attack them will only lead to heavy losses with no hope of a peaceful outcome. Avoid. Positives: Only real enemy is Satan. Threat very low unless Muslim or German.

Err, shouldn't that be 'immortality'?

StarFox · 03-18-08, 01:52 PM

to be honest, the big problem with using DNA to solve a crime, is that unless the person has already comitted a crime, their DNA is NOT on record. this fatal flaw leaves the chance for a brutal crime to pass as either unsolved, or very hard to solve simply because they may not have ever comitted a crime, leaving the investagotors to have to do it the hard way

DNA evidence will only really work like it is suppose to if EVERYONE has their DNA on record. Yes, it may seem wierd, but this is the correct course of action

at least, that is how it works in the US

but thats my opinion, and it seems people think my opinions are weird. I would be willing to submit DNA, because I know I would never hurt anyone (well, not everyone on earth....there are a few I would like to get my hands on.) I would be willing to pay taxes so everyone could have health care, and I would be willing to pay taxes to turn the rusted SS United States into a world class hotel and Museum in New York. Call me strange, but its who I am

Jimbuna · 03-18-08, 02:42 PM

If it stops some of the hideous crimes individuals commit against each other it's gotta be worth it.

lesrae · 03-18-08, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If it stops some of the hideous crimes individuals commit against each other it's gotta be worth it.

I have no problem with it either. At what age should we start worrying about kids commiting crime?

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/disp...entPK=20175431

PS - Knipper - I moved out of Bath a few years ago, but still work there. Do you have a local?

Jimbuna · 03-18-08, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesrae

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If it stops some of the hideous crimes individuals commit against each other it's gotta be worth it.

I have no problem with it either. At what age should we start worrying about kids commiting crime?

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/disp...entPK=20175431

PS - Knipper - I moved out of Bath a few years ago, but still work there. Do you have a local?

Age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 years of age....Sadly, some commit serious crimes before that.

03-17-08, 05:02 PM	#1
darius359au Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Hitler would be proud I really think the the English goverment has lost the plot - Now the policewant to DNA database children as young as 5 if they misbehave so as to identify "Future Criminals" and the Goverment seems to think it's a good idea http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...67-401,00.html Whats next , type kids by race to ID future terrorists , Neo nazi's or any other group that the police and goverment are worried or annoyed at? sorry if the thread title offends but this is something that would've been fitted right into some of the nazi eugenic's programs..

03-17-08, 05:03 PM	#2
Kapitan_Phillips Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Swansea Posts: 3,903 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	It doesnt offend me. This is why I'm getting out and having my kids someplace else. __________________ Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into.

03-17-08, 05:15 PM	#3
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Looks like the U.S. is heading down the same road England is (we've got all 3 of our current candidates vying for the lead no less!!). A small piece of land and the idea of my own little country sounds like a more attractive idea as the months go by. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

03-17-08, 05:25 PM	#4
Knipper Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bath, SW England Posts: 123 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Tell you what Darius, it's the grown-ups who should be DNA'd so they can be identified as 'Future Criminal Parents'. My wife works with 'difficult' kids and she reckons it's easy to see how they got that way and 99 times out of a hundred, it's because their parent's don't give a toss about them. And you're right, we've lost the plot on the whole civil liberties thing. If I go into town (and Bath is a relatively small one) and stroll around for an hour, by the time I get back, I'll probably be on upwards of 50 CCTV camera's. They're even rolling out cameras that allow the operators to yell at you if you're spotted dropping litter or something (not as I do). I think if I was younger, I'd be on the same boat out of here as Kapitan Phillips. Anyway, I hear there are a load of jobs going at the Ministry of Truth for loyal Proles like me, so I think I'll stick around. __________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato Last edited by Knipper; 03-17-08 at 07:13 PM.

03-17-08, 05:33 PM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,612 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca One of the most underrated and underestimated movies I know of. It matches the vision of "Blade Runner" nicely. And somehow i feel this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrium_%28film%29 aims for comparable things. Sad, but impressive movies. Impressive, but sad. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-17-08, 05:45 PM	#6
Knipper Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bath, SW England Posts: 123 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Can't say I've heard of either of those Skybird, but I'll certainly check them out. Thanks for the refs, they sound right up my street. Incidentally, re Steed's quote which you now use for your signature, have you ever read 'A Canticle For Leibowitz', by Walter M Miller Jr? It's about that sort of thing, as well as being post-apocalypse. Sounds like it might be one for you. __________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

03-17-08, 06:08 PM	#7
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Seems the brits are way ahead of us in this one. It always amazes me how the very country that invented civil liberties is so hell bent on abolishing them. CCTV in Germany is (sofar) limited to busy downtown metro stations and some squares. The constitutional court has recently made some quite interesting decisions on public surveilance which should at least slow down the increase. Generally, regardless of country, sometimes I ask myself: Who's actually in favor of all this? I've never seen anyone either in real life nor in any kind of internet discussion who actually favored data mining, surveilance and all that. Yet these measures increase year by year, despite being opposed by practically every educated citizen in every nation in question. Of course there are the "tabloid reading uneducated masses", but these people are mostly indifferent and if you bother to ask them they're mostly opposed as well, regardless of what the tabloids tell them. Who's the driving force behind this? The industry? Older generation politicians who can't handle progress? Is it preparation for a totalitarian society? I doubt it since today's politicians can't think long term. __________________

03-17-08, 06:55 PM	#9
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	I could just see it now. DNA data programed into human database with warning comments: Asian born: Known to be bad tippers, will not accept a bargain when they say its 1 dollar its 1 dollar nothing less although more is sometimes accepted. Knows Kung fu staying at a distance is recommended, breeds like rabbits could be a possible future threat. Positives: Experts in tunnel warfare. Black born: Has revolved over the centuries to become a simple hunter/gatherer to experts in their own enigma coded lanuguage known as Rap & masters at firing handguns sideways. Positives: Would make brilliant enemy vehicle hijackers. White Born: Tends to drum into other races how supreme they are and if it wasn't for them your be all fked. Positives: If it wasn't for them we did all be fked. Jewish Born: Rumor has it this race has discovered immorality hard to exterminate, not to be under-estimated attack them will only lead to heavy losses with no hope of a peaceful outcome. Avoid. Positives: Only real enemy is Satan. Threat very low unless Muslim or German. German Born: Also class as White but once claim to be the Master race. Should be monitored 24/7. When they talk of peace war is about to commense. Masters at deceiving their own. Postives: Will support their leader right to the last man. Kiwi Born: Greenpeace. Anti-nuclear. Extermination is recommended. :p __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

03-18-08, 01:52 PM	#11
StarFox Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 216 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	to be honest, the big problem with using DNA to solve a crime, is that unless the person has already comitted a crime, their DNA is NOT on record. this fatal flaw leaves the chance for a brutal crime to pass as either unsolved, or very hard to solve simply because they may not have ever comitted a crime, leaving the investagotors to have to do it the hard way DNA evidence will only really work like it is suppose to if EVERYONE has their DNA on record. Yes, it may seem wierd, but this is the correct course of action at least, that is how it works in the US but thats my opinion, and it seems people think my opinions are weird. I would be willing to submit DNA, because I know I would never hurt anyone (well, not everyone on earth....there are a few I would like to get my hands on.) I would be willing to pay taxes so everyone could have health care, and I would be willing to pay taxes to turn the rusted SS United States into a world class hotel and Museum in New York. Call me strange, but its who I am __________________ Devoted fan of the SS United States, America's Flagship! I dream of her second life....

03-18-08, 02:42 PM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	If it stops some of the hideous crimes individuals commit against each other it's gotta be worth it. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!