Tibet, China and Olympics

[Skybird]

Youm may have heared it: in tibet, bitter tensions have broken free over the past days. Independant news sources talk of kill numbers in the three digit range. The chinese military is firing at will, the Chinese media broadcasts pictures of a marauding mob, but is hiding the many, many peaceful demonstrations, in order to give the Dalai Lama, who since many years has given up calls for independance, just asks for autonomy now, a bad name. Since the occupation starts, over one million Tibetans have been killed, murdered, and many more have been tortured. the original population was around 6 million. the Chinese try systematically the destroy the Tibetan culture by Chinese settlement programs, ethnic cleansing, and forcing Tibetans out of their home. this massacre along with the systemtically realised intention of destroying Tibetan culture, qualifies for the the definition of genoicide according to the anti-genocide convention of the UN from 1948 (or was it 52, I'm not sure this moment).

Nevertheless, china was awarded the sports festival of peace, the olympic games. how much greater a farce can be.

It does not matter if the Albanian's success with Kosovo's independance encouraged the Tibetans or not, or if their timing is aiming at the Olympics or not. To me the idea of going to China as an athlete and doing as if nothing is wrong with that place, or even signing declaration of my own government that I will not speak about critical issues in China, is most unacceptable. If I were a pro, there is a very strong chance that I would pass my nation'S sport federation's invitation to go there. If that would mean conflict, or a lifelong ban, so be it. A federation giving me troubles for not complying with the interests of their policy and the interests of place like that, probably would not deserve my service and dedication anyway, so to hell with both. One should know one's own value.

I directly compare the chinese Olympics to the Olympic summer games in berlin, which also degenerated into a propaganda show and a demonstration of the superiority of Nazi-german technology (broadcasting).

I used to say in the past that sports and poltiics should be kept seperate, and therefor no boycotts should take place. But I today ask one question: what oif the other side does not share my sentiment to keep both things different, and link it to causes of politics, and prestigious propaganda nevertheless? Can it be demanded from our athletes to make themselves available to this kind of abuse? and if they want to go there for "selfish" reasons, for having prepared so long and now wanting to show what they can do- is it acceptable to make such desires ranking higher than preventing ourselves from obeying with such propaganda efforts?

We cannot escape it - there is a strong political component in international sports, and in case of the the chinese Olmpics, it is monumental.

I vote for boycotting the Olympics.

And that is not the scandal in the mainl. The real scandal is that China even has been rewareded the Olympic games. It also display of how the power is shifting on the global stage. It is no secret that Cjhina has bought votes for the games from small and poor nations, like you and me buy milk and sweets in the supermarket.

What do you think, what is your stand on the Olympics in China?

So high developed a culture they had. So many treasures of thinking and philosophy to be found in their literature. My own thinking owes so very much to Ch'an buddhism and Lao Tse. Much shadow in their history, yes, but also so much beauty.

And then came Mao.

[FIREWALL]

A new Olympic Event.... Dodgeing Bullets.

[Platapus]

I wonder what the selection criteria is for determining where the olympics will be held?
..... other than just bribes.

The only saving grace is that the olympics are losing prestige as the years go on. I really don't see it continuing much longer. Very very expensive and few countries were able to even break even cost wise.

I know that olympic coverage here in the US is crap. If it is not an American competing in an event where we will win, good luck finding any coverage.

I remember back as a kid our entire family watching the olympics on tv. Every night we were glued there watching athletes from countries I never heard of competing in sports that I found so strange but compelling. Now it is all commercials. And basketball. When did basketball become an olympic sport??? I guess the Americans needed something they could win at?

Well it used to be fun.

[Skybird]

Greatest Olympics I ever experienced was 1984 in L.A. I consumed every bit of every day of it, it were summer holidays over here. Great atmosphere, and much "TV fever", I was completely absorbed. Never before and never after it, Olympics ever became so present on my mind again. In fact, i don'T care much at all.

Before i manage - once again - to hijack one of my own threads: back to the topic!

[Gorduz]

Actually the Norwegian athletes have been training in artificially generated smog and poor air in order to prepare themselves. I think that says alot.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Gorduz

Actually the Norwegian athletes have been training in artificially generated smog and poor air in order to prepare themselves. I think that says alot.

At first I thought, this is a funny joke, but now I think you're serious.


On a side note, what are the Chinese going to do if there are protests during the olympics? Are they going to behave themselves while all eyes are on them or....
what they usually do to people when someone disagrees with them?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Greatest Olympics I ever experienced was 1984 in L.A. I consumed every bit of every day of it, it were summer holidays over here. Great atmosphere, and much "TV fever", I was completely absorbed. Never before and never after it, Olympics ever became so present on my mind again. In fact, i don'T care much at all.

Before i manage - once again - to hijack one of my own threads: back to the topic!

On a side note, does anybody care about the summer olympics anyway? I love the winter olympics, but I could care less about the summer games.

[Yahoshua]

More importantly, what will the commies do if a foreign competitor brings up political protests DURING live competition?

Will they swallow the criticism until after the games and then deport him/her?

China should never have gotten the olympic's in the first place but they offered the most amount of money to the IOC so the IOC spouted the "Olympics are above politics and for all mankind" line and chose to ignore the abuses in China - I think its time for countries to do the same thing to China as happened to Russia after the invasion of afganahstan in the 80's and boycott the games.
Of course , all the Corparations that have millions invested in "Olympics INC" would scream but thats not exactly a bad thing

[XabbaRus]

China and the worlds reaction to it has got to be one of the most hypocritical relationships on the planet.

Case in point, watch how news organisations and politicians villify and criticise Russia at almost every turn but you hear no such criticisms of China. Oh some mild condemnation how they are concerned at China#s treatment of disidents and hope they change their ways but nothing like what Russia gets.

So we should boycott the Olympics and tell China to f**k off. But hey no world leader has the guts.

[Steel_Tomb]

I've been reading the news stories since last night, and really think this is going to end with another massacre. China should never have been given the olympics in the first place, with the countries record on human rights and the manner in which it rules simply goes against everything the olympics are supposed to stand for. I too vote for boycotting the olympics. I doubt it, but I pray that this years olympics are an unmittigated disaster for China. The communist government needs to know there is a line, and that they crossed it a long time ago! The world is pathetic anyway, no one could give a damn about those poor sods being locked up for no reason, if it doesnt include money and trade deals they aren't interested.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

More importantly, what will the commies do if a foreign competitor brings up political protests DURING live competition?

Will they swallow the criticism until after the games and then deport him/her?

Some days ago I read that the Brits already had to sign obligatory agreements that they will keep their mouth shut. It was the British givernment ordering them to do it, not the chinese, as far as I know.

I think it were the Brits. correct me if I am wrong. I am sure that similiar things happen in many other national olympic commitees as well.

Freedom of speech given up for Olympia. Bah.

-----

also, traditionally and historically, participating nations were obligated, at leats in ancient times, to keep up peace and have seize-fires at least for thew duration of the games. But the brutal supression and murdering in Tibet will continue before during and after the games. So, if Olympics really would mean anything, ironically not others would need to consider to boycott, but China had to be banned for violating this ancient tradition.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

China and the worlds reaction to it has got to be one of the most hypocritical relationships on the planet.

Case in point, watch how news organisations and politicians villify and criticise Russia at almost every turn but you hear no such criticisms of China. Oh some mild condemnation how they are concerned at China#s treatment of disidents and hope they change their ways but nothing like what Russia gets.

So we should boycott the Olympics and tell China to f**k off. But hey no world leader has the guts.

What we should do and what we could do may prove to be two separate things. China simply has become too powerful and influential to simply wave it out. Sad, unfair, bitter - but true. We shouldn'T have started to trade with them many decades ago. This is what brought them into possession of the means (machineries in the main) to become a self-supplying and now partially market-dominating power. That they would not just use our machines, but would study them copy them, and learn how to built industrial machines ba themselves - this conclusion was too much demanded from our bright politicians. The level to which the West already depend on it you can see in this simple link (quoting Joseph Stiglitz in a german essay I had set up some time ago):

From the German:
"One of the bizarre symptoms of globalisaion is that the Chinese, who opposed the Iraq war in the UN, in the end financed this war to a substantial ammount, by using their enormous dollar reserves from the trade surplus with America to buy US treasury bonds. So, a consumer democracy without any savings is borrowing from a market-leninistic state in order to fight terror."

They also use their massive reserves to form close ties with - taken for themselves: unimportant - third world countries whom they helpt pout and lead into dependenca at the same time, "buying" their votes in international councils and commitees that way. I now live by the impression that this use of "soft power" works much more in favour of their future benefit than the use of "hard power" of western nations does for the West's future perspectives. Additonally, we waste these ressources in useless enterprises. they not only save their ressources, but even increase them.

But still I think they should be amongst themselves with their propaganda olympics.

[Steel_Tomb]

I think its possible to get the western powers away from china. we just need to build up our own manufacturing base over the next decade or two, then just slap china in the face and stop all trade with them. their economy depends on exports so much it would just crash. chinese goods are crap anyway, the place is so corrupt. I mean all the cases of lead in kids toys must have done some damage.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Case in point, watch how news organisations and politicians villify and criticise Russia at almost every turn but you hear no such criticisms of China.

Because we have massive trade with China and very limited trade with Russia.

As scissors cut paper, profit always trumps human rights