GWX Team - convoy screen thoughts

[MarkShot]

Dear GWX Team,

As always, thanks for your wonderful mod.

I don't know how much control modders have over the convoy screen formation and the screen's behavior.

An now my feedback ...

It is my impression that the convoy defense is too heavily weighted to the flanks and rear.

I can consistently slip by the screen at 25M when that screen contains 6-9 escorts. Typically, there will be two escorts positioned forward. However, one of two will be considerably more forward than the other.

Generally, screens are not that hard to penetrated if you have an accurate course for the convoy and then can key in on the single most forward escort. You side step that escort with three key techniques:

(1) Silent running at 1-2kts.

(2) Time (you arrive way in advance ... thus, despite your low speed) the long lead distance gives you time to position.

(3) Depth. At 25M you have enough slack to drift upwards while making 1kts.

Once you clear that single escort, the convoy is open to you.

Okay, how could this approach be made harder:

(1) More escorts leading.

(2) More forward area in front of the covered by escort motion.

(3) Randomness in escort searching as opposed to predictable swings back and forth.

Now, I am not sure that anything can be tweaked, but for #1. However, I would think #1 might be promising. I would assume that the convoy's greatest vulnerability submerged is from the front. Your sub is constrained on close approach to only 1-2kts. There is limited opportunity to thrust in from the flanks; and none from the rear. Even if a flank attack is feasible, it requires much more skill than a forward attack. Why? The forward attack is highly passive based on letting the convoy come to you. The flank attack requires substantial repositioning of your U-boat both in a relative and absolute sense.

So, I would tend to think that the convoy would put up a strongest defense if 50% of the escorts were allocated to sweep ahead of the convoy. Of course, this configuration might not be historic, but I think it would increase the challenge of attacking GWX convoys.

The vulnerability I see to such approach is the pop-up attack. I have heard that despite moving very slowly and deep that the u-boat can blow ballast and rise rapidly to attack without alerting the escorts. I personally have not used this technique. A less uniform screen might make this style of attack easier.

Comments?

[MarkShot]

An example of threading the eye of the needle with 7 escorts in early 1943.

As far as I can tell, this procedure isn't really getting harder as the war progresses. What is getting harded is getting away after attacking.

PS: You may comment on my use of map contacts and red lines for warships. However, doing without these aids would only make is more tedious, but not impossible to do. Since mainly, you need to key off the lead escort at the point. Once you learn how to do that, you can thread the needle.

---

I have received numerous requests to share this mod for GWX Red Lines. Actual credit should go to Rubini as I adapted his work when I was playing GWX 1.03. This also works with other mods which alter contact lines. Here is a link to the mod. No, need to PM me with an email address:

Right click and do a SAVE AS to your hard drive; unzip; use JSGME to install.

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/te...es/redline.zip

[GoldenRivet]

good technique is what it amounts to.

Try the exact same thing in May of 1943 and post the results

[MarkShot]

That was 01/30/43.

Everyone keeps saying tomorrow.

I just finished playing through that checkpoint as practice.

I also fairly easily escaped the DEs after the attack. The AI mainly allocated as single DE to attack me and another to stay close.

I think similar to SH2, DE allocation appears to be dependent on proximity to your supposed location. So, it seems that if you attack a convoy with 7 escorts, it doesn't mean that they will counter-attack you with 7 escorts.

[ToySoldier]

Hi out there!

Originally Posted by MarkShot

PS: You may comment on my use of map contacts and red lines for warships. However, doing without these aids would only make is more tedious, but not impossible to do. Since mainly, you need to key off the lead escort at the point. Once you learn how to do that, you can thread the needle.

Excuse my question .... but where did you get the red line from????

I like to have them to!!!!

In diesem Sinne
Gott mit uns
Frank B. aus K.

[MarkShot]

I made a mod of mods to do that.

PM me an email address and I will zip it and send it to you. Simple JSGME mod.

[Tessa]

I've run into a few convoys like that between 43-44 and don't really see the need to make it harder, or add more escorts. By lying in wait virtually like a ghost you achieve a perfect tactical position for an ambush that is going to dish out some major damage. Same as walking into a MG42 nest, sending more squads forward to get gunned down just leads to more body bags, you either get a sniper or start tossing grenades once the position is located. Escorts have to act smarter and can't carpetbomb areas with depth charges.

Even if the escorts find you, they're still at a major disadvantage with friendly fire and creating potential collisions within the convoy. After you empty your tubes you can break for one of the columns and hide under a large noise tanker or such. Even without silent speed you can reload potentially till you've run out (though that usually requires taking out 2-4 of the escorts) from hiding. Though destroyers are nimble ships, maneuvering through the columns to find you makes them slow down and concentrate on moving before they can really start looking for you. Perfect situation is if you can cripple a large target enough that it will eventually get left behind by the convoy. Just hide under him then slip away. Being able to attack a convoy like that is extremely fun, yet still requires a lot of skill to stay safe. It's one of the few major vulnerabilities convoys have, being at the right place at the right time is no coincidence

[MarkShot]

Well, I am threading the needle again. There is just about about 1km gap between the two leading escorts. If they weren't coming to me, it would be d*m near impossible to hit that gap while doing 1-2kts while they are doing 8-15kts.

The front door is the only way I can see to get in, but it is the front door which isn't locked much better than the anyplace else.

[Captain Nemo]

Perhaps you are too good! Your suggestion about deploying 50% of the escorts at the front surely would leave the back door open, even though I agree with you that attacking from astern of the convoy is a much more difficult proposition from a manoeuvrability viewpoint. As you also point out, changing the way the escorts are deployed would not be accurate historically.

I believe that most u-boats made their approach to the convoy from the front, like you describe. Once an attack had been made the escorts immediately put plan Raspberry into operation. This plan was designed to combat u-boats that had sneaked past the escort screen and got in amongst the convoy. It was anticipated that once they had launched their attack the submarines would dive deep and lie silent, allowing the convoy to pass overhead then resurface behind the ships. Plan Raspberry called for the escorts to double back leaving the convoy to sail on. The escorts would then move behind the u-boat's estimated position, turn and in sailing back to rejoin the convoy, cross over where the sub was supposed to be dropping several patterns of depth charges.

If I remember rightly, the other plan the escorts used was called 'Pineapple' or 'Strawberry' can't quite remember which.

Nemo

[Keelbuster]

Escorts in the front - they get you on the way in. Escorts in the back, they get you on the way out. Either way they get you

[MarkShot]

The primary mission of the escort is to prevent the U-boat from sinking merchants. Killing the U-boat is just icing on the cake. So, I would argue in favor of making the attack harder even if that makes the escape easier.

I think sweeping the front of the convoy is probably the single most important thing which the escorts can do to prevent attacks. Unlike other subsims, given the limitations on moving any faster than a crawl, the front door is really the only viable option for submerged attack. In other games, you can come in from the flanks at better than a crawl while sacrificing your battery for a shooting position. This just isn't possible with GWX2.

[MarkShot]

The back door is only open to surface attack. However, the existence of radar and accurate gunnery makes surfaced back door attacks pure suicide.

[Jimbuna]

Usually (IMHO) the best method is to lie in wait ahead of the convoy in as good a strategic position as possible to warrant as little movement from the sub as possible.

Ideally, let the convoy come to you

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Usually (IMHO) the best method is to lie in wait ahead of the convoy in as good a strategic position as possible to warrant as little movement from the sub as possible.

Ideally, let the convoy come to you

Hear the man, also to add to this, if you like to play it safe turn your boat so it's parallel to the convoy's course. That way the ASDIC has the minimum change of hitting you.

[MarkShot]

I am going to start working on something new today.

Instead of trying to slip in the front door at 25M at 1kts, I am going to try to come in at about 220M at 1kts. I think this will reduce the chance of ASDIC if I fail to nail the gap in the screen. Also, if they do detect me, it will be good to be deep. If I nail the gap, then I will blow ballast and pop up. Silent, of course.