A question for fellow SH4 fans

DasLimpet · 03-10-08, 10:54 PM

Let me begin by saying that this is my first post, and I'm really thrilled to have found such an ardent group of fellow simmers.

I finally ponied up and bought a new comp capable of running of SH4 (damn game has been sitting in the box for over a year... my old Gateway couldn't handle it).

Over the last week, I've been playing stock SH4 (I'm not savvy enough with addons). I tried playing the American campaign, 1941, based at Pearl Harbor. My first mission was to drop a spy off on the Japanese mainland. I chose a Tambor class submarine, because it was the newest fleet sub at the time.

Here's where the problem begins. I was chugging right along, diving during the day and surfacing at night, running at Standard speed (optimum for speed vs range, I believe). By the time I reached the mission area and dropped off the agent, I checked my fuel; lo and behold, I'm barely at 1/4!!

I try to head back home since I'm new to the game, I wasn't sure (and still don't know) if I can fire off a mayday for a resupply, but I got sunk by Japanese aircraft before I ran out of fuel.

I've tried the U-Boat Expansion and had a blast. Just for the heck of it, I sailed all the way from Singapore to San Diego and raised hell in the middle of the harbor and had ample fuel to get back and refit before proceeding with my missions.

Here are my questions:

1. In the Tambor class, I was running at Standard speed on the surface until I got a full battery charge and dived until I was at 10% before resurfacing to maximize fuel efficiency. Was I doing something wrong by running out of fuel?

2. Is it possible to send mayday calls if I run out of fuel?

3. What's so special about all these addons I keep hearing about?

Thanks for any assistance you might lend. Again, I'm really happy to be here.

DasLimpet · 03-10-08, 10:54 PM

Bilge rat?

Ducimus · 03-10-08, 11:04 PM

>>Bilge rat?

Forum title. Everyone starts out as one. Welcome to subsim by the way. I'll let others answer your questions, im short on time and have to shut down ye old workstation and hit the clock.

SuperCavitation · 03-10-08, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasLimpet

1. In the Tambor class, I was running at Standard speed on the surface until I got a full battery charge and dived until I was at 10% before resurfacing to maximize fuel efficiency. Was I doing something wrong by running out of fuel?

2. Is it possible to send mayday calls if I run out of fuel?

3. What's so special about all these addons I keep hearing about?

1. Standard will kill your fuel effeciency. Try 2/3 or 9kts on the really long runs. Recharging batteries further kills your efficiency, even at 2/3 so try to keep the batts at 75% or better.

2. Nope. Been waiting on a milkcow since SH2.

3. Depends on who you ask. I think the add-ons rock but my opinion is not shared. Or might you mean mods?

Welcome to subsim!!!

DasLimpet · 03-10-08, 11:19 PM

Yes, I meant Mods. Thanks for the reply.

Torplexed · 03-11-08, 12:08 AM

The mods do a lot to make the game's ship traffic and air patterns more in line with historical reality. Makes it less of a tonnage shooting gallery.

By the way.......always gotta pull this plank out for new guys.

McBeck · 03-11-08, 04:30 AM

Welcome aboard!

The fuel problem for the fleetboats is something you need to address with great care if you want to use the gameoption of limited fuel. If you dont care to bother, then just switch on unlimited fuel.

As for the mods, they come in all shapes and sizes. I would suggest you go here for a list of mods:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108964

Ask fellow skippers for good mods to suit your taste (sounds, gameplay, visuals etc...)

ridgewayranger · 03-11-08, 05:43 AM

Hi,
I ran into this problem until I realized that standard speed uses fuel up fast, so I changed the standard fuel setting to 50%. Problem fixed. It gives 9/10 knots and ample range!
RR

Rockin Robbins · 03-11-08, 05:43 AM

Simulation is not just to simulate point and shoot, then hopefully boom, but to simulate the actual experience of the WWII sub jockey. Did you realize that from Pearl to Japan is over 3,600 miles? The real submarines had fuel problems too, just as you are.

Some have complained that the mast heights give incorrect ranges. The real ID manual was rife with errors. Real skippers took it for granted that without radar ranges they were likely to waste more than half their torpedoes.

Don't even ask for a rundown on the American torpedo scandal. That's search material and check out Ducimus' A Brief Introduction to the Pacific Submarine War.

That's only the lightning survey. Don't assume that any problems in the game are due to defects. Most likely they reflect reality in a most uncomfortable way.

Mods: I have to say that mod #1 is Ducimus' Trigger Maru Overhauled. I am playing a U-Boat campaign without it (it wasn't available yet when I put to sea) and I am continually surprised by the details I took for granted that were actually part of TM. One of our struggles is always to leave map updates on or turn them off. I contend that leaving them on with Trigger Maru most closely reflects the actual plotting situation WITH RADAR AVAILABLE. If you don't have radar yet, even the TM plot is too precise, but it is preferrable to no map updates in my opinion. I'm talking about realism only, not ease in playing SH4!

A trip over to the realm of the Pacific Environment boys is not required--but it should be! Since the late Dave Bunnell, leovampire, produced Reflections on the Water, this has been the greatest thing to ever happen to SH4. And it has nothing to do with gameplay at all! It is strictly an environmental mod to make the ocean behave more realistically and beautifully, the clouds, the sky, the colors and reflections of everything are immeasurably and indescribably more beautiful than the original. Danger, you may spend too much time on the bridge at 1x time compression when you should be 2048x headed for dangerous waters.

Another mod I'm playing without that I miss terribly is Natural Sinking Mechanics. In the stock game, you torpedo an empty tanker, the toughest ship on the ocean to sink, and on torpedo #2, the ship explodes and sinks like a stone in less than a minute! In R/L it wasn't unusual for one of those suckers to inhale 4 torpedoes and cruise over the horizon without even slowing down. Natural Sinking Mechanics fixes this, giving you a much more realistic sinking model. You won't appreciate it until you're forced to play without it as I am right now. Just as the battle comes to a climax, the little hitpoints counter guy in your target says that's enough. He hits the nuclear scuttle charges and you get a very pretty but stupid explosion no matter how inappropriate. Check out Natural Sinking Mechanics.

And finally Run Silent Run Deep took apart all the enemy ship movements, removed them really, and substituted historical shipping patterns and warship deployment for the entire war. It also removed the unrealistic missions and replaced them with missions that make sense. Warning: it replaces the shooting gallery atmosphere of stock SH4 with the frustration in finding targets (sometimes) of the real war.

Remember, a real part of war is frustration. SH4 and these mods definitely model that frustration. Wait until you encounter (actually they will encounter you. You don't actually ever have to LOOK for trouble

) Ducimus' evil ASW aircraft, which can see you at periscope depth or perhaps somewhat below. You're making an approach and BOOM!!!! If you're not hit, you know that merchie out there now knows where you are and is taking evasive action. You aren't the hunter any more, you are the hunted. Forget that approach you set up over the last several hours, you're in survival mode now! Good luck pal...........

So: you have what it takes? Welcome aboard. Here's a Momsen Lung. You may need it.

Sailor Steve · 03-11-08, 08:18 AM

WELCOME ABOARD!

Everything has been said. Cruise at 2/3. Recharging batteries uses more fuel, not less (that was one of the totally unreal tricks SH3 allowed). Good mods always make the game better. Don't be a stranger; ask more questions. Have fun.

AVGWarhawk · 03-11-08, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasLimpet

Bilge rat?

Don't feel bad about this. I started as 'Pond Scum'. Welcome aboard!

Jinx_ · 03-11-08, 08:24 AM

Later in the war patrols a couple of milk cows show up south west of Pearl

Kapitan_Phillips · 03-11-08, 09:49 AM

Welcome to SS!

Fuel can be a right little bum in the Pacific. Once I was operating the Vaughan out of Manila, I had to go up to patrol off of Tokyo for 48 hours, then go back to Manila. I was at about 50% fuel by the time I was just about to finish the last leg of my return journey. However, I got a radio message ordering me to relocate to bleedin' JAVA which is about a million miles thattaway.

I used about 5 knots on the surface and ran my batteries right down when they were charged and just about scraped getting there

Sailor Steve · 03-11-08, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Welcome to SS!

Why, thank you; but I've been here longer than you have...

...oh! You meant SubSim.:rotfl:

SuperCavitation · 03-11-08, 11:31 AM

As soon as I complete my current US tour, I'm going to get Trigger Maru. I want to see (and shoot down) Ducimus' "evil, hated aircraft..."

Trigger Maru is in this here linky: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330

03-11-08, 12:08 AM	#6
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The mods do a lot to make the game's ship traffic and air patterns more in line with historical reality. Makes it less of a tonnage shooting gallery. By the way.......always gotta pull this plank out for new guys. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

03-11-08, 04:30 AM	#7
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! The fuel problem for the fleetboats is something you need to address with great care if you want to use the gameoption of limited fuel. If you dont care to bother, then just switch on unlimited fuel. As for the mods, they come in all shapes and sizes. I would suggest you go here for a list of mods: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108964 Ask fellow skippers for good mods to suit your taste (sounds, gameplay, visuals etc...) __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

03-11-08, 05:43 AM	#8
ridgewayranger Frogman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ipswich, England Posts: 302 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	Fuel economy Hi, I ran into this problem until I realized that standard speed uses fuel up fast, so I changed the standard fuel setting to 50%. Problem fixed. It gives 9/10 knots and ample range! RR

03-11-08, 05:43 AM	#9
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Simulation Simulation is not just to simulate point and shoot, then hopefully boom, but to simulate the actual experience of the WWII sub jockey. Did you realize that from Pearl to Japan is over 3,600 miles? The real submarines had fuel problems too, just as you are. Some have complained that the mast heights give incorrect ranges. The real ID manual was rife with errors. Real skippers took it for granted that without radar ranges they were likely to waste more than half their torpedoes. Don't even ask for a rundown on the American torpedo scandal. That's search material and check out Ducimus' A Brief Introduction to the Pacific Submarine War. That's only the lightning survey. Don't assume that any problems in the game are due to defects. Most likely they reflect reality in a most uncomfortable way. Mods: I have to say that mod #1 is Ducimus' Trigger Maru Overhauled. I am playing a U-Boat campaign without it (it wasn't available yet when I put to sea) and I am continually surprised by the details I took for granted that were actually part of TM. One of our struggles is always to leave map updates on or turn them off. I contend that leaving them on with Trigger Maru most closely reflects the actual plotting situation WITH RADAR AVAILABLE. If you don't have radar yet, even the TM plot is too precise, but it is preferrable to no map updates in my opinion. I'm talking about realism only, not ease in playing SH4! A trip over to the realm of the Pacific Environment boys is not required--but it should be! Since the late Dave Bunnell, leovampire, produced Reflections on the Water, this has been the greatest thing to ever happen to SH4. And it has nothing to do with gameplay at all! It is strictly an environmental mod to make the ocean behave more realistically and beautifully, the clouds, the sky, the colors and reflections of everything are immeasurably and indescribably more beautiful than the original. Danger, you may spend too much time on the bridge at 1x time compression when you should be 2048x headed for dangerous waters. Another mod I'm playing without that I miss terribly is Natural Sinking Mechanics. In the stock game, you torpedo an empty tanker, the toughest ship on the ocean to sink, and on torpedo #2, the ship explodes and sinks like a stone in less than a minute! In R/L it wasn't unusual for one of those suckers to inhale 4 torpedoes and cruise over the horizon without even slowing down. Natural Sinking Mechanics fixes this, giving you a much more realistic sinking model. You won't appreciate it until you're forced to play without it as I am right now. Just as the battle comes to a climax, the little hitpoints counter guy in your target says that's enough. He hits the nuclear scuttle charges and you get a very pretty but stupid explosion no matter how inappropriate. Check out Natural Sinking Mechanics. And finally Run Silent Run Deep took apart all the enemy ship movements, removed them really, and substituted historical shipping patterns and warship deployment for the entire war. It also removed the unrealistic missions and replaced them with missions that make sense. Warning: it replaces the shooting gallery atmosphere of stock SH4 with the frustration in finding targets (sometimes) of the real war. Remember, a real part of war is frustration. SH4 and these mods definitely model that frustration. Wait until you encounter (actually they will encounter you. You don't actually ever have to LOOK for trouble) Ducimus' evil ASW aircraft, which can see you at periscope depth or perhaps somewhat below. You're making an approach and BOOM!!!! If you're not hit, you know that merchie out there now knows where you are and is taking evasive action. You aren't the hunter any more, you are the hunted. Forget that approach you set up over the last several hours, you're in survival mode now! Good luck pal........... So: you have what it takes? Welcome aboard. Here's a Momsen Lung. You may need it. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-11-08, 08:18 AM	#10
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	WELCOME ABOARD! Everything has been said. Cruise at 2/3. Recharging batteries uses more fuel, not less (that was one of the totally unreal tricks SH3 allowed). Good mods always make the game better. Don't be a stranger; ask more questions. Have fun. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-10-08, 10:54 PM	#1
DasLimpet Nub Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A question for fellow SH4 fans Let me begin by saying that this is my first post, and I'm really thrilled to have found such an ardent group of fellow simmers. I finally ponied up and bought a new comp capable of running of SH4 (damn game has been sitting in the box for over a year... my old Gateway couldn't handle it). Over the last week, I've been playing stock SH4 (I'm not savvy enough with addons). I tried playing the American campaign, 1941, based at Pearl Harbor. My first mission was to drop a spy off on the Japanese mainland. I chose a Tambor class submarine, because it was the newest fleet sub at the time. Here's where the problem begins. I was chugging right along, diving during the day and surfacing at night, running at Standard speed (optimum for speed vs range, I believe). By the time I reached the mission area and dropped off the agent, I checked my fuel; lo and behold, I'm barely at 1/4!! I try to head back home since I'm new to the game, I wasn't sure (and still don't know) if I can fire off a mayday for a resupply, but I got sunk by Japanese aircraft before I ran out of fuel. I've tried the U-Boat Expansion and had a blast. Just for the heck of it, I sailed all the way from Singapore to San Diego and raised hell in the middle of the harbor and had ample fuel to get back and refit before proceeding with my missions. Here are my questions: 1. In the Tambor class, I was running at Standard speed on the surface until I got a full battery charge and dived until I was at 10% before resurfacing to maximize fuel efficiency. Was I doing something wrong by running out of fuel? 2. Is it possible to send mayday calls if I run out of fuel? 3. What's so special about all these addons I keep hearing about? Thanks for any assistance you might lend. Again, I'm really happy to be here.

03-10-08, 11:04 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	>>Bilge rat? Forum title. Everyone starts out as one. Welcome to subsim by the way. I'll let others answer your questions, im short on time and have to shut down ye old workstation and hit the clock.

03-10-08, 11:19 PM	#5
DasLimpet Nub Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yes, I meant Mods. Thanks for the reply.

03-11-08, 08:24 AM	#12
Jinx_ Watch Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 20 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Later in the war patrols a couple of milk cows show up south west of Pearl

03-11-08, 09:49 AM	#13
Kapitan_Phillips Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Swansea Posts: 3,903 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Welcome to SS! Fuel can be a right little bum in the Pacific. Once I was operating the Vaughan out of Manila, I had to go up to patrol off of Tokyo for 48 hours, then go back to Manila. I was at about 50% fuel by the time I was just about to finish the last leg of my return journey. However, I got a radio message ordering me to relocate to bleedin' JAVA which is about a million miles thattaway. I used about 5 knots on the surface and ran my batteries right down when they were charged and just about scraped getting there __________________ Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into.

03-11-08, 11:31 AM	#15
SuperCavitation Loader Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Dallas, Tejas!! Posts: 87 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	As soon as I complete my current US tour, I'm going to get Trigger Maru. I want to see (and shoot down) Ducimus' "evil, hated aircraft..." Trigger Maru is in this here linky: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330 __________________ "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast. For I intend to go in harm's way." - Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, in a letter to le Ray de Chaumont.