How do you use the A-Scope scale???

Quagmire · 01-28-08, 02:00 PM

I am embracing the 100% realism world which means no map contact updates. Its actually a nice challenge since it forces you to do some old fashioned compass and ruler plotting. When you get it right its very rewarding.

Anyway my plots could be MUCH more accurate if I could get better range readings from the A-Scope. Check this out.

As you can see (ignore the devs smilely face easter egg) the target is at around 330 deg on the PPI. But what is the range on the A-Scope? Is it 28000 yards, is it 29000 yards, 28500 yards maybe? Look closer, in the lower left of the A-Scope is says mx100!!! So should I convert to meters or did the devs not release an imperial texture for the A-Scope???

Now remember this?

Circled in yellow, the German "vertical A-Scope", had a nifty numerical roto-wheel readout that gave the exact range to the target. I really miss that. Also I cant imagine that the MORE ADVANCED American radar didnt have this feature.

So how do you guys get any sort of accuracy out of the A-Scope we are forced to use? Furthermore, would it be possible to mod the SHIII roto-wheel range display into SHIV?

Thanks in advance for the help!
.

FIREWALL · 01-28-08, 02:19 PM

Hi Quagmire

I'd like to know also. As it is now I find that scope useless except for eyecandy.

Maybe there's something else you have to click.

Fincuan · 01-28-08, 02:31 PM

Those as precise readings as you'll get without map contact updates. Something that helps a little is the "Small radar contacts" mod, which makes the PPI blips a lot smaller, but other than that this is all we got. Another tool that I use is Mobo. Take a screenshot of the radar screen, import it to Mobo and do all the measurements there. Still not very exact science, but definitely better than just eyeballing the PPI screen.

M. Sarsfield · 01-28-08, 03:16 PM

Since the scales on the A-scope are logrithmic, the further right you go, the bigger the range jump over a smaller distance on the scope. I just make a best guess and usually I get a pretty good estimate of the ship's course after taking several readings over time. Ranges beyond 30,000 yards are really hard to guess and only serve to show you that there's a ship out there on a specific bearing.

In SH1, you started out with the A-scopes for SD and SJ radars. Later in the war the PPI scope got added to the boat for SJ. I always looked forward to getting the PPI upgrade.

Ridgeback · 01-28-08, 04:07 PM

I share your pain with this.....I'm having the same problem with no map updates.

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=116122&page=2

In particular post #27 by Gino - the US subs did have a range unit to provide a numerical readout but it is not modelled in game

ATM, I'm using one of the old radar mods which provides bearing marks and range circles on the PPI (not historically accurate but compensates a little for the lack of the range readout) together with the small radar contact icons mod. I make a guesstimate of range based on the PPI and A-scope

I use the radar to get general range, course and bearing information. I use this to maneuver into an attack position and then rely on visuals for the attack phase. The radar as it stands is next to useless for getting detailed information to set up an attack..

Cheers

Quagmire · 01-28-08, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Those as precise readings as you'll get without map contact updates. Something that helps a little is the "Small radar contacts" mod, which makes the PPI blips a lot smaller, but other than that this is all we got. Another tool that I use is Mobo. Take a screenshot of the radar screen, import it to Mobo and do all the measurements there. Still not very exact science, but definitely better than just eyeballing the PPI screen.

Thanks Fincuan. I'm gonna try that smaller radar contacts mod. BTW, what is this Mobo you speak of?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridgeback

The radar as it stands is next to useless for getting detailed information to set up an attack..

How ironic. The American late war radar set was the MOST advanced in the world at that time yet in SHIV it is inferior to the German early war set in SHIII. I do love this game, but in many ways SHIV is one step forward, two steps back.

I wonder if it is possible to import that roto-wheel from SHIII into SHIV? :hmm:
.

Quagmire · 01-28-08, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridgeback

I share your pain with this.....I'm having the same problem with no map updates.

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=116122&page=2

In particular post #27 by Gino - the US subs did have a range unit to provide a numerical readout but it is not modelled in game

Oh I just checked out that thread and I am gonna cry!

Here is what we are missing folks!

This is the "range unit" and it sits just to the left of the A-Scope. See that little window. That is where the range is displayed! How could they have left this out. Not modeling this for the radar set is like not modeling the stadimeter for the periscope!

Shame!

Sorry but this is a real bummer. It proabably wouldnt have taken much time to model this. What a let down.

Well time to make the best of it. Here is my next question. Does that mx100 scale under the A-Scope readout mean that the values are in metric or should I assume that the results are imperial?
.

aanker · 01-28-08, 07:37 PM

Quote:

This is the "range unit" and it sits just to the left of the A-Scope. See that little window. That is where the range is displayed! How could they have left this out. Not modeling this for the radar set is like not modeling the stadimeter for the periscope!

Yup that should have been modeled... SH I had it

Quote:

Well time to make the best of it. Here is my next question. Does that mx100 scale under the A-Scope readout mean that the values are in metric or should I assume that the results are imperial?

Initially that was my thought however someone corrected me and if you are running Imperial mx100 means "multiplied by 100" Imperial ... (not meters)

Happy Hunting!

Art

Quagmire · 01-28-08, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

Quote:

Well time to make the best of it. Here is my next question. Does that mx100 scale under the A-Scope readout mean that the values are in metric or should I assume that the results are imperial?

Initially that was my thought however someone corrected me and if you are running Imperial mx100 means "multiplied by 100" Imperial ... (not meters)

Happy Hunting!

Art

Interesting. In the states we would have just put x100. Multiplied is understood. Thanks for the heads up!
.

Ridgeback · 01-28-08, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

BTW, what is this Mobo you speak of?

Re: MoBo have a look here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=225

It is a great tool for plotting target courses, speeds, intercept points, etc.

If you read the second of Lurker's Tactical Manuals (one of the sticky's) you can see how MoBo can be used to plot an intercept off radar information.

I tend to use MoBo to get a rough idea of target bearing, course and speed. The beauty of MoBo is that it solves the relative motion problems (ie it takes into account your own course and speed as well as that of the target). You can then decide whether an intercept is feasible or not.

MoBo can generate the course to intercept and additional information such as the time to reach the intercept point at a given speed, etc..

I've been using it for a couple of months and love it.

LukeFF · 01-29-08, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

This is the "range unit" and it sits just to the left of the A-Scope. See that little window. That is where the range is displayed! How could they have left this out. Not modeling this for the radar set is like not modeling the stadimeter for the periscope!

Shame!

Sorry but this is a real bummer. It proabably wouldnt have taken much time to model this. What a let down.

I agree it is a shame. The radar model in the game is very lacking when it comes to the finer details of the A-scopes, PPI display, radar images, etc. (not to mention the complete lack of a radar display for the SD).

Here's what the real thing looks like (from the USS Cobia )

Ridgeback · 01-31-08, 10:30 PM

Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet:

This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on:

LukeFF · 01-31-08, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridgeback

Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet:

This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on:

And your point is...?

That's a German radar set. Has absolutely nothing to do with the American ones.

Ridgeback · 01-31-08, 10:59 PM

Quote:

And your point is...?

That's a German radar set. Has absolutely nothing to do with the American ones.

My point is if the devs have implemented code that will display range reading for the German sets, might not they also do the same for the US sets? Or this might make it possible for a mod to use the range window for US sets. I know little about modding, so I don't know whether this would be do-able or not.

You may know more about the add-on than I do. Thought this might provide a ray of hope...it wasn't meant to be a pointless post

AkbarGulag · 01-31-08, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridgeback

Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet:

This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on:

I think it does add some hope... IF thats functional , then the game has the mechanics for it to be added to existing subs. I'm no genius, but I bet someone around here has the smarts to achieve it.

EDIT: Ridgeback was to quick for me ^^ everyone please pretend my post was one up from here.

01-28-08, 02:00 PM	#1
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	How do you use the A-Scope scale??? I am embracing the 100% realism world which means no map contact updates. Its actually a nice challenge since it forces you to do some old fashioned compass and ruler plotting. When you get it right its very rewarding. Anyway my plots could be MUCH more accurate if I could get better range readings from the A-Scope. Check this out. As you can see (ignore the devs smilely face easter egg) the target is at around 330 deg on the PPI. But what is the range on the A-Scope? Is it 28000 yards, is it 29000 yards, 28500 yards maybe? Look closer, in the lower left of the A-Scope is says mx100!!! So should I convert to meters or did the devs not release an imperial texture for the A-Scope??? Now remember this? Circled in yellow, the German "vertical A-Scope", had a nifty numerical roto-wheel readout that gave the exact range to the target. I really miss that. Also I cant imagine that the MORE ADVANCED American radar didnt have this feature. So how do you guys get any sort of accuracy out of the A-Scope we are forced to use? Furthermore, would it be possible to mod the SHIII roto-wheel range display into SHIV? Thanks in advance for the help! . __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

01-28-08, 03:16 PM	#4
M. Sarsfield Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,016 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Since the scales on the A-scope are logrithmic, the further right you go, the bigger the range jump over a smaller distance on the scope. I just make a best guess and usually I get a pretty good estimate of the ship's course after taking several readings over time. Ranges beyond 30,000 yards are really hard to guess and only serve to show you that there's a ship out there on a specific bearing. In SH1, you started out with the A-scopes for SD and SJ radars. Later in the war the PPI scope got added to the boat for SJ. I always looked forward to getting the PPI upgrade. __________________ MJS USS Batfish Volunteer/Reenactor www.ss310.com www.ussbatfish.com Communism killed over 100M people and all that I got was this lousy signature.* *http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

01-28-08, 04:07 PM	#5
Ridgeback Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	I share your pain with this.....I'm having the same problem with no map updates. Have a look at this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=116122&page=2 In particular post #27 by Gino - the US subs did have a range unit to provide a numerical readout but it is not modelled in game ATM, I'm using one of the old radar mods which provides bearing marks and range circles on the PPI (not historically accurate but compensates a little for the lack of the range readout) together with the small radar contact icons mod. I make a guesstimate of range based on the PPI and A-scope I use the radar to get general range, course and bearing information. I use this to maneuver into an attack position and then rely on visuals for the attack phase. The radar as it stands is next to useless for getting detailed information to set up an attack.. Cheers __________________ "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa

01-31-08, 10:30 PM	#12
Ridgeback Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet: This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on: __________________ "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa

01-28-08, 02:19 PM	#2
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Hi Quagmire I'd like to know also. As it is now I find that scope useless except for eyecandy. Maybe there's something else you have to click. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

01-28-08, 02:31 PM	#3
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Those as precise readings as you'll get without map contact updates. Something that helps a little is the "Small radar contacts" mod, which makes the PPI blips a lot smaller, but other than that this is all we got. Another tool that I use is Mobo. Take a screenshot of the radar screen, import it to Mobo and do all the measurements there. Still not very exact science, but definitely better than just eyeballing the PPI screen.