Adding a 3d Navigator to the Command Room

jdkbph · 01-17-08, 07:50 PM

We have a way to add crewmen to the various compartments on the boat, and have them man any station for which a 3d node already exists. For instance, there is an officer standing at the navigator's table and calling out appropriate information, but only when the crew is at General Quarters (battlestations). Otherwise the station is unmanned. What we have been able to do is add crew men to that compartment and assign them to the navigator's station during normal (1st, 2nd and 3rd) watches.

The question is how best to configure the crew assignments so that we get the benefit without throwing the "standard complement" too far out of whack.

Please use this poll and thread to express your thoughts and opinions.

Thank you

JD

Ducimus · 01-17-08, 08:34 PM

Does the navigator add any more voice output other then, "returning to course sir?"

Personnaly, if i were to add a crewman, its a tossup between the navigator, and the trim manifold. While he doesnt have any voice output that im aware of, his normal absence sometimes bugs me.

A thought occured to me whlie i type this. The lack of crew cheering on a torpedo hit. In Sh3, it was the manifold operator who let out the audible cheer, so i have to wonder if the lack of a cheer correlates to the lack of manifold operator after i moved him to the empty planesman station

edit:
I suppose if that was the case, it would show up in GC . :hmm: wish that cheer worked.

EAF274 Johan · 01-18-08, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Does the navigator add any more voice output other then, "returning to course sir?"

I've also heard him say "Plotting search pattern", but I don't think he says much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The lack of crew cheering on a torpedo hit.

In SH3 this was governed by the file PUMP.dat, which is also present in SH4. I tried editing it in the same way as the SH3 file to add the cheer, but it still doesn't show up in SH4. The animation (planesmen throwing their fist in the air) is there, however, so it should be possible to combine it with a sound somehow.

Personally I would like to have as many crewmen visible as possible, so that in effect, GQ only adds the 3D models of the gun and AAA crews. Just one concern: does the repair crew still show up OK if you do this?

Maybe he's hiding somewhere behind a crate, but I can't remember seeing a NAV officer in S-class subs.

So after giving it a thought, my vote goes to "1 Jr Officer (1st watch nav) + Petty Officer (2nd and 3rd watch)". This provides some variation, which I think gives the best visual effect.

Payoff · 01-18-08, 03:48 AM

The response I miss the most from the navigator is "Depth under keel is . . ." I think it fell to the wayside in the meters to feet conversion.

This sounds like a great idea by the way.

Fish40 · 01-18-08, 04:39 AM

Whatever is the historical, accurate placement of men, I'm all for it!

ridgewayranger · 01-18-08, 06:06 AM

Hi Everybody,
I don't know why there is this concern for a a navigator on watch at all times. I cannot speak for U.S. boats but British boats only had Captain plus 3 or 4 officers, one of whom was the Navigator. At Diving stations, meaning all crew closed up, he would be at the plot. With normal watchkeeping, on the surface the O.O.W. on the bridge, in the control room the P.O.of the watch, who took care of the chart and liaised with the O.O.W. When dived the O.O.W. was of course in the control room and checked the navigation himself. At all times the Navigator would be on call if required. He would have prepared the courses and speeds well in advance so really all the O.O.W. or watch P.O. would have to do was read these off, and put fixes on the chart to check actual position against intended.
Hope this helps.
R.R.

EAF274 Johan · 01-18-08, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridgewayranger

Hi Everybody,
I don't know why there is this concern for a a navigator on watch at all times.

Speaking for myself, it's mostly about eye-candy. Having more crew in the control room improves the game's atmosphere. Anyway, I believe US boats had more officers on board, especially later in the war.

Sailor Steve · 01-18-08, 12:33 PM

I voted 'Other', simply because I would want whoever was actually there, if anyone.

Sockeye · 01-18-08, 12:59 PM

I actually wouldn't mind seeing more bodies in the conning tower during general quarters, rather than a man at the chart table below all the time. There's six slots in the conning tower, so that sounds like a nice round number, but I have no idea how to go about this or how difficult it would be.

Besides the sonar, radar, and TDC operators, I'd like to see someone at the plot table, a periscope assistant, and either a man at the firing plunger or someone at the helm station.

In other words, the conning tower is a bit too vacant for my liking at the moment

jdkbph · 01-19-08, 06:12 PM

Bump.

If there's no interest in this, I just want to make sure it's not because it wasn't seen...

Quagmire · 01-19-08, 10:49 PM

You can bet that I am stil VERY interested. Although I am biased since I posed the question in the first place. Anyway I am back in port now so I can test any new work you may have.

Thanks again for this!!!
.

seaniam81 · 01-20-08, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sockeye

I actually wouldn't mind seeing more bodies in the conning tower during general quarters, rather than a man at the chart table below all the time. There's six slots in the conning tower, so that sounds like a nice round number, but I have no idea how to go about this or how difficult it would be.

Besides the sonar, radar, and TDC operators, I'd like to see someone at the plot table, a periscope assistant, and either a man at the firing plunger or someone at the helm station.

In other words, the conning tower is a bit too vacant for my liking at the moment

This has bugged me too. The conning tower was a very busy place during an approch, and there is a lack of that now

kapitan_zur_see · 01-20-08, 11:43 AM

Great idea!
I'm 100% with this regardless of the placement, it's mostly about eye-candy

I thought about that while triying to figure out how animation are set up. Never found out, though...

LukeFF · 01-20-08, 11:39 PM

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/chap20.htm#20A

This gives some really good information about how the crew was organized on a patrol.

In short, there are several shortcomings with the way the crew moves around the boat in the game, as follows:

The planesmen in the control room: this was a position manned only when the boat was submerged, and these two spots would be manned by members of the watch crew. In SH4 the bridge watch and the planesmen are manned by two totally separate sets of crew.
The control room officer (the one giving speed and course commands): this was a position manned by the CPO of the Watch, not an engineering officer a la SH3 and the Kriegsmarine. The OOD would be stationed on the bridge, not in the control room. Any officers in the control room while surfaced would be at the navigator's table. Only when submerged would the OOD take over for the CPO of the Watch .

Problem #2 can be partially rectified, while problem #1 can't.

Nuc · 01-21-08, 09:27 AM

I would rather see another petty officer (Auxiliaryman of the Watch) at the trim manifold.

View Poll Results: How should the command room crew be configured
3 additional Jr Officers to man the Nav station, one for each watch	12	40.00%
2 additional Jr Officers for the 1st and 2nd watch nav station, with a Petty Officer manning the 3rd	4	13.33%
1 additional Jr Officer for the 1st watch nav station, with a Petty Officer manning the 2nd and 3rd	9	30.00%
Other	5	16.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

01-18-08, 03:48 AM	#4
Payoff Captain Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nash Town, USA Posts: 525 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The response I miss the most from the navigator is "Depth under keel is . . ." I think it fell to the wayside in the meters to feet conversion. This sounds like a great idea by the way. __________________ "Hit Shokaku class carrier with three out of six torpedos. Recieved 105 depth charges during three hour period. Heard four terrific explosions in the direction of target, two and one half hours after attack. Believe that baby sank!" Lieutenant Commander Herman Kossler USS Cavalla

01-18-08, 06:06 AM	#6
ridgewayranger Frogman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ipswich, England Posts: 302 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	Navigator station Hi Everybody, I don't know why there is this concern for a a navigator on watch at all times. I cannot speak for U.S. boats but British boats only had Captain plus 3 or 4 officers, one of whom was the Navigator. At Diving stations, meaning all crew closed up, he would be at the plot. With normal watchkeeping, on the surface the O.O.W. on the bridge, in the control room the P.O.of the watch, who took care of the chart and liaised with the O.O.W. When dived the O.O.W. was of course in the control room and checked the navigation himself. At all times the Navigator would be on call if required. He would have prepared the courses and speeds well in advance so really all the O.O.W. or watch P.O. would have to do was read these off, and put fixes on the chart to check actual position against intended. Hope this helps. R.R.

01-18-08, 12:33 PM	#8
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I voted 'Other', simply because I would want whoever was actually there, if anyone. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-19-08, 10:49 PM	#11
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	You can bet that I am stil VERY interested. Although I am biased since I posed the question in the first place. Anyway I am back in port now so I can test any new work you may have. Thanks again for this!!! . __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

01-17-08, 07:50 PM	#1
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	Adding a 3d Navigator to the Command Room We have a way to add crewmen to the various compartments on the boat, and have them man any station for which a 3d node already exists. For instance, there is an officer standing at the navigator's table and calling out appropriate information, but only when the crew is at General Quarters (battlestations). Otherwise the station is unmanned. What we have been able to do is add crew men to that compartment and assign them to the navigator's station during normal (1st, 2nd and 3rd) watches. The question is how best to configure the crew assignments so that we get the benefit without throwing the "standard complement" too far out of whack. Please use this poll and thread to express your thoughts and opinions. Thank you JD Last edited by jdkbph; 01-17-08 at 08:03 PM.

01-17-08, 08:34 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Does the navigator add any more voice output other then, "returning to course sir?" Personnaly, if i were to add a crewman, its a tossup between the navigator, and the trim manifold. While he doesnt have any voice output that im aware of, his normal absence sometimes bugs me. A thought occured to me whlie i type this. The lack of crew cheering on a torpedo hit. In Sh3, it was the manifold operator who let out the audible cheer, so i have to wonder if the lack of a cheer correlates to the lack of manifold operator after i moved him to the empty planesman station edit: I suppose if that was the case, it would show up in GC . :hmm: wish that cheer worked.

01-18-08, 04:39 AM	#5
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	Whatever is the historical, accurate placement of men, I'm all for it!

01-18-08, 12:59 PM	#9
Sockeye Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 127 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	I actually wouldn't mind seeing more bodies in the conning tower during general quarters, rather than a man at the chart table below all the time. There's six slots in the conning tower, so that sounds like a nice round number, but I have no idea how to go about this or how difficult it would be. Besides the sonar, radar, and TDC operators, I'd like to see someone at the plot table, a periscope assistant, and either a man at the firing plunger or someone at the helm station. In other words, the conning tower is a bit too vacant for my liking at the moment

01-19-08, 06:12 PM	#10
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	Bump. If there's no interest in this, I just want to make sure it's not because it wasn't seen...

01-20-08, 11:43 AM	#13
kapitan_zur_see Commodore Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: France Posts: 614 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Great idea! I'm 100% with this regardless of the placement, it's mostly about eye-candy I thought about that while triying to figure out how animation are set up. Never found out, though... __________________

01-20-08, 11:39 PM	#14
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/chap20.htm#20A This gives some really good information about how the crew was organized on a patrol. In short, there are several shortcomings with the way the crew moves around the boat in the game, as follows: The planesmen in the control room: this was a position manned only when the boat was submerged, and these two spots would be manned by members of the watch crew. In SH4 the bridge watch and the planesmen are manned by two totally separate sets of crew. The control room officer (the one giving speed and course commands): this was a position manned by the CPO of the Watch, not an engineering officer a la SH3 and the Kriegsmarine. The OOD would be stationed on the bridge, not in the control room. Any officers in the control room while surfaced would be at the navigator's table. Only when submerged would the OOD take over for the CPO of the Watch . Problem #2 can be partially rectified, while problem #1 can't. __________________ ROW Sound Effects Contributor RFB Team Leader Last edited by LukeFF; 01-20-08 at 11:52 PM.

01-21-08, 09:27 AM	#15
Nuc Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 180 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	I would rather see another petty officer (Auxiliaryman of the Watch) at the trim manifold.