Weapons that changed the world.(OT)

[Avatar]

Hey,
I just saw the show "Weapons that Changed the World," on the Discovery channel and they didnt mention the submarine. They must be nuts!
the weapons were: Carrier, Stealth A/C, AK-47, BMP, and a bunch of other stuff... but no submarine?:hmm:

[panzer 49th]

Yeah there were no submarines in there, (IMHO I think the german panther tank should have been in the list even though it didnt do anything)

[seafarer]

Well, the criterion for the list was weapons that "truly changed the course of human history". By that definition I'd say the Panther tank is out - it did not really change anything.

Also, the list on the show was specifically for post-WWII weapons only, so the submarine was excluded on that basis alone. Even then, there was clearly some fudging going on anyway. Although the AK-47 was in there, it's conceptual origins and even prototype design actually began before the war was over. And while the carrier was developed, obviously, before wars end, they still put the Nimitz "supercarrier" in there as being sufficiently distinct (which was pretty lame, IMO, as the real advance in carriers came about during the war, not after it - the supercarrier is just an extension of that development). By that criterion, nuclear subs should have been in there too, despite the origins of submarines, as nuke boats represent an even greater evolutionary step over conventional boats then nuke carriers do over conventional carriers.

But hey, it's television, so what can you expect

The list has also got a largely subjective aspect to it too, since the list was limited to only 10 weapons. I guess they just realized they had to put some boundaries on it or it would be impossible to compile any kind of short list.

[Paajtor]

Hey, we all know better....


Subs, are all about stealth...no wonder nobody noticed how they changed the world.

[Jonathan]

I would put the birth of man at the top of the list...

[Abd_von_Mumit]

In my opinion the only weapon that REALLY changed anything in the world after WWII was the ballistic missile capable of transporting nuclear head(s). No other weapon had so big impact on historical events, wars, alliances, societies, way of thinking, what we fear, what about we write books and make films, what we think about future. All the rest is just certain evolution of quite conventional weapons used by mankind: guns, ships, aircraft, cannons and so on.

But even the ballistic missile had no chance to influence the world as much as, for example, a spear thrower (that let prehistoric men hunt big animals and spread to almost any world location and let create large communities instead of very small family-tribes) or the crossbow that helped to end dark-ages knights' and feudals' era in Europe.


EDIT:
As to submarines, I'll disagree. Carriers completely changed the naval wars, and did submarines do this too? Submarines evolved, that's true, but it's the carrier that rules in the sea. Subs are of minor importance - they are more of strategical importance (like nuking the enemy after he nuked us), but are now quite useless in everyday conventional war, in tactical manner. It's the carriers and missiles that do the job of devastating enemy fleet and airforce, not subs. Imagine war without subs - nothing would change much. Imagine it without carriers - that would be a hell different.

[Hartmann]

Originally Posted by Avatar

Hey,
I just saw the show "Weapons that Changed the World," on the Discovery channel and they didnt mention the submarine. They must be nuts!
the weapons were: Carrier, Stealth A/C, AK-47, BMP, and a bunch of other stuff... but no submarine?:hmm:

:hmm: well... all of these weapons will be carried in a ship , and sunk by submarines.

i think that a nuke submarine is the ultimate weapon, able to return a country to the stone age with missiles.

[BulSoldier]

But think about when was the last time big naval forces met in battle ? The ships after ww2 didnt played big role except to give airsupport on the ground.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

IMO the STG44 should be there to, it was the first real assoult rifle, the XXI should be there to since it was the "parent" of the subs we have now

there are so much things that are forgotten on that list (also the nuke)

[Jimbuna]

ICBM without a doubt

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Kaleu. Jochen Mohr

IMO the STG44 should be there to, it was the first real assoult rifle

Agreed. I dont get it why AK47 is there unstead of STG44.

For what I've read, this show reminds me of "top 10 deadliest weapons" or something like that, and they said that the deadliest weapons was human body. Rrrright... IIRC, even a nuke wasnt mentioned in it.

[3Jane]

The cross-bow, the trebuchet, rocketry.

I personally dislike those shows, as already mentioned they are subjective and limited to which one might also add superficial. Much like most of the stuff on TV.

I think jimbuna hit it right, the ICBM, particularly the SLBM.

The overkill of the East-West nuclear triads during the Cold War made the doctrine of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) work but the firepower and invulnerability of the SSBN/PLARK forces ensured that a first strike was off the table as a strategic option.

The ICBM/submarine combo might not have changed the world but I think they may have served to prevent it being changed into a nuclear wasteland.

Just my $0.02 worth of opinion.
Good Hunting

[kenijaru]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Subs are of minor importance but are now quite useless in everyday conventional war, in tactical manner.
...
Imagine war without subs - nothing would change much

with all due respect, i think you are mistaken. a single sub (and i mean a hunter-killer submarine, not a ballistic one) in the area (that the enemy knows of, or thinks to know of) is enough to halt the advance of a task force and make them deploy anti-submaine warfare. the sub might not actually engage them but has, solely by its precence, slowed them or formed a diversion that can lead to the destruction of such task force.
and even better if they dont know that the sub is there! with at least 8 forward tubes it can unleash havoc.

--

Originally Posted by Hartmann

i think that a nuke submarine is the ultimate weapon, able to return a country to the stone age with missiles.

Originally Posted by Einstein

I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

it leaves you thinking and feeling uneasy, doesn't it?