What does this button do?

Zero Niner · 01-02-08, 09:41 PM

The one that the cursor is pointing to...

Ducimus · 01-02-08, 09:50 PM

That button enables, or disables the position keeper. The PK is biggest reason why US TDC's were superior to the german ones.

As your undoubtly aware, when you entered information into a german styled TDC in SH3, your info had to be up to date. All information had to be fresh. The TDC did not keep track of the target.

US ones however do. Assuming no change in course, you can enter the speed, range, AOB, and then tell the TDC to track that target or, "keep its position". The analog computer that is the TDC will then, keep track of the target, and increment its exact location at all times, assuming no change in course or speed.

So you can for instance, get one periscope observation, track it with the position keeper, and never have to raise the periscope again - assuming your info is correct, and the target doesnt change course.

Zero Niner · 01-02-08, 10:05 PM

Quote:

As your undoubtly aware, when you entered information into a german styled TDC in SH3, your info had to be up to date. All information had to be fresh. The TDC did not keep track of the target.

Lol, I've never tried manual targeting in SH3.

So if it's off it behaves similar to the TDC in U-boats? And if it's on assuming both my sub and the target maintain course and speed it'll predict data accurate enough to fire a torp that'll hit (assuming the torp works, that is).

Thanks Ducimus. Appreciate you efforts in making Trigger Maru.

Ducimus · 01-02-08, 10:15 PM

>>So if it's off it behaves similar to the TDC in U-boats?

Truthfully, i dont know!

There are some wizards around here with the TDC, and i think leaving off the PK is part of the "Dick O'Kane" method of manual targeting. I havent tried it yet, but its very unconventional, and works extremely well. Supposivly great for on the fly solutions and shooting multiple targets.

>>And if it's on assuming both my sub and the target maintain course and speed it'll predict data accurate enough to fire a torp that'll hit (assuming the torp works, that is).

The TDC keeps track of your position relaitive to your target as well. YOU can change course all you want. The TDC will continue to calculate, and adjust the firing solution with your course changes. Pretty cool huh? Its just the target data that cannot change. If a target changes speed or course, then you'll have to input fresh data.

edit:
Oh yea, dont forget to turn the PK OFF when switching to a second target. Otherwise all your fish will go to wherever the PK is currently pointed at. Using it, get in the habit of turning it off, and then back on, when switching to a new target.

LukeFF · 01-02-08, 11:48 PM

The American TDC is indeed a very powerful tool when fed with good data. Me, I can hit ships at night while surfaced with shots from 5,000 yards out.

Storabrun · 01-05-08, 09:26 PM

It would be nice if it did work like a german TDC when you turn off the PK. But as far as I remember it doesn't (one of the reasons I went back to playing SH3) and that makes it a pain to use against convoys imo. I think the reason is that it doesn't make AOB updates with a manual input of a new bearing (like when you switch to another target in a convoy, or if your speed was wrong and therefore bearing after a while). Even if you start out with a perfect AOB and range you still have to redo it all if you miss out on the speed. Which makes the PK a rather useless gadget in my view. I hope it was better in RL and I personally much prefer the TDC on the u-boats in SH3 where you just need to find out the speed and course (AOB) of a convoy and then point and shoot at multiple targets in a short time. Range is all you need to worry about when switching targets, and you can forget about that too if your course is +-90 from the targets course and you keep the gyro angle low (as this will make range have no effect on the solution).

Snuffy · 01-06-08, 12:09 PM

I guess I'm from the "O'Kane School" then.

I have never targeted using the PK.

Rockin Robbins · 01-06-08, 01:04 PM

Link to Dick O'Kane targeting tutorial

Ridgeback · 01-06-08, 05:17 PM

I'm too a devotee of the O'Kane method. Thanks RR

There is a couple of things that turn me off using the PK - the need to identify the ship before range data can be sent to the TDC and the fact that the maximum range that can be manually inputted is limited to approx 1,200 yards.

From what I've read and seen, in RL (whoops, here I go with the real life thing

), the situation did not often allow the luxury of accurately identifying the target before establishing a solution. Initially, an estimate of the range was made based on experience and/or an estimated target mast height. Refinement of the solution continued from there.

In fact, after the engagement, the skipper and other key crew that saw the target would pore over recognition manuals in an effort to identify the target.

The limitation on manually entering range data is a PITA, particularly when SJ radar provides fairly accurate ranges which, as in RL, was used as the range figure for the TDC.

Anyway, for me it's O'Kane all the way and it works a treat. So far in my current 3 patrol career (TM 1.7.2, RSRD, NSM & ROW) I've sunk two Takao class CA's, one Hiryu class CV (woo hoo!!) and half a dozen merchie's.

epower · 01-12-08, 02:35 PM

Ridgeback,

Check out this thread: A wee bit of editing and you'll have manual input up to 11000 yards.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=range+input

Being somewhat obsessive about plotting and tracking my quarry, I've found the manual imput thing to be of use, although the small size of the dial makes it tough to be exact.

Good luck

Ridgeback · 01-13-08, 05:24 AM

Epower,

Thanks mate - exactly what I was after. I wonder if the same zoom that works on the speed/rudder/depth dials would work on the range/stadimeter dial? That might make entering the range a bit easier...:hmm:

Thanks again!

epower · 01-14-08, 12:29 PM

If you figure out how to zoom that dial, please let me know. I'm just starting to muck about with modding stuff and have no idea where to look for that sort of function.

Hope you can make it work.

01-02-08, 09:41 PM	#1
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	What does this button do? The one that the cursor is pointing to...

01-06-08, 12:09 PM	#7
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I guess I'm from the "O'Kane School" then. I have never targeted using the PK. __________________ ----------------- Snuffy! Last edited by Snuffy; 01-06-08 at 11:00 PM.

01-06-08, 01:04 PM	#8
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Huh, Oh, that's my cue... Link to Dick O'Kane targeting tutorial __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-06-08, 05:17 PM	#9
Ridgeback Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	I'm too a devotee of the O'Kane method. Thanks RR There is a couple of things that turn me off using the PK - the need to identify the ship before range data can be sent to the TDC and the fact that the maximum range that can be manually inputted is limited to approx 1,200 yards. From what I've read and seen, in RL (whoops, here I go with the real life thing ), the situation did not often allow the luxury of accurately identifying the target before establishing a solution. Initially, an estimate of the range was made based on experience and/or an estimated target mast height. Refinement of the solution continued from there. In fact, after the engagement, the skipper and other key crew that saw the target would pore over recognition manuals in an effort to identify the target. The limitation on manually entering range data is a PITA, particularly when SJ radar provides fairly accurate ranges which, as in RL, was used as the range figure for the TDC. Anyway, for me it's O'Kane all the way and it works a treat. So far in my current 3 patrol career (TM 1.7.2, RSRD, NSM & ROW) I've sunk two Takao class CA's, one Hiryu class CV (woo hoo!!) and half a dozen merchie's. __________________ "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa

01-12-08, 02:35 PM	#10
epower Watch Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 25 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 0	TDC manual range input Ridgeback, Check out this thread: A wee bit of editing and you'll have manual input up to 11000 yards. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=range+input Being somewhat obsessive about plotting and tracking my quarry, I've found the manual imput thing to be of use, although the small size of the dial makes it tough to be exact. Good luck

01-02-08, 09:50 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	That button enables, or disables the position keeper. The PK is biggest reason why US TDC's were superior to the german ones. As your undoubtly aware, when you entered information into a german styled TDC in SH3, your info had to be up to date. All information had to be fresh. The TDC did not keep track of the target. US ones however do. Assuming no change in course, you can enter the speed, range, AOB, and then tell the TDC to track that target or, "keep its position". The analog computer that is the TDC will then, keep track of the target, and increment its exact location at all times, assuming no change in course or speed. So you can for instance, get one periscope observation, track it with the position keeper, and never have to raise the periscope again - assuming your info is correct, and the target doesnt change course.

01-02-08, 10:15 PM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	>>So if it's off it behaves similar to the TDC in U-boats? Truthfully, i dont know! There are some wizards around here with the TDC, and i think leaving off the PK is part of the "Dick O'Kane" method of manual targeting. I havent tried it yet, but its very unconventional, and works extremely well. Supposivly great for on the fly solutions and shooting multiple targets. >>And if it's on assuming both my sub and the target maintain course and speed it'll predict data accurate enough to fire a torp that'll hit (assuming the torp works, that is). The TDC keeps track of your position relaitive to your target as well. YOU can change course all you want. The TDC will continue to calculate, and adjust the firing solution with your course changes. Pretty cool huh? Its just the target data that cannot change. If a target changes speed or course, then you'll have to input fresh data. edit: Oh yea, dont forget to turn the PK OFF when switching to a second target. Otherwise all your fish will go to wherever the PK is currently pointed at. Using it, get in the habit of turning it off, and then back on, when switching to a new target.

01-02-08, 11:48 PM	#5
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	The American TDC is indeed a very powerful tool when fed with good data. Me, I can hit ships at night while surfaced with shots from 5,000 yards out.

01-05-08, 09:26 PM	#6
Storabrun Loader Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 83 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It would be nice if it did work like a german TDC when you turn off the PK. But as far as I remember it doesn't (one of the reasons I went back to playing SH3) and that makes it a pain to use against convoys imo. I think the reason is that it doesn't make AOB updates with a manual input of a new bearing (like when you switch to another target in a convoy, or if your speed was wrong and therefore bearing after a while). Even if you start out with a perfect AOB and range you still have to redo it all if you miss out on the speed. Which makes the PK a rather useless gadget in my view. I hope it was better in RL and I personally much prefer the TDC on the u-boats in SH3 where you just need to find out the speed and course (AOB) of a convoy and then point and shoot at multiple targets in a short time. Range is all you need to worry about when switching targets, and you can forget about that too if your course is +-90 from the targets course and you keep the gyro angle low (as this will make range have no effect on the solution).

01-13-08, 05:24 AM	#11
Ridgeback Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Thanks!! Epower, Thanks mate - exactly what I was after. I wonder if the same zoom that works on the speed/rudder/depth dials would work on the range/stadimeter dial? That might make entering the range a bit easier...:hmm: Thanks again! __________________ "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa

01-14-08, 12:29 PM	#12
epower Watch Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 25 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 0	Zoom would be great If you figure out how to zoom that dial, please let me know. I'm just starting to muck about with modding stuff and have no idea where to look for that sort of function. Hope you can make it work.