SH4 and image quality on Nvidia...

[Rubini]

Hi mates,

Happy New Year for all !
I also put this post on Sh3 general forum to avoid miss any comment.

I just build a new PC: E6850, 8800GT512, GA-p35-ds3...plus Crysis and CD4...all this on a 26" wide LCd monitor...These new FPS games really rocks on this system

BTW, I had a ATi X800XTPE prior my new 8800GT/new PC: Ati image quality is really much better than nvidia for SH3/SH4! Seems that Nvidia have a cheat on all AA modes for things at great distance - the case of SH3/Sh4 - the AA (in any configuration) just don´t work well at great distant objects on Nvidia cards!!!

But for games that renders things relatively near the player the Nvidia image is also really great, like the FPS games.

I tried some search on the net about the problem and seems that this is an old nvidia issue, like discussed here:
http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2200966&fpart=1

Anyhow, someone knows a fix or tweak for this annoying Nvidia image quality behaviour on Sh3/Sh4?:hmm:

Thanks in any advice!

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Hmmm, that's strange. I have NVidia 8500GT and AA at 8x and AF at 4x and no problems. Game looks great at a decent framerate.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by DavyJonesFootlocker

Hmmm, that's strange. I have NVidia 8500GT and AA at 8x and AF at 4x and no problems. Game looks great at a decent framerate.

Do you already played Sh3/Sh4 with an Ati card before?
Perhaps this is why you don´t see any problem?:hmm:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I played SH3 on an ATI X800 Pro card for a short time and it played and looked fine. Dumped the ATI card recently due to overheating and got the NVidia card. But I can't complain about the NVidia card with SH4 though.

[Periscope]

Its because the 8800GT has got the G92 chipset.. That would be my guess.
I also heard that e.g. in Flight Simulator 2004 the G92 chipset just leads to annoying flickering and some people even do not get AA & AF to work correctly, etc.

@Rubini: Did you try out nHancer so far?
BTW: I almost got the same rig as you... But I decided to take the ASUS P5E MB instead of Gigabyte. I'm now waiting for my Gainward 8800GT 512 GS GLH which isn't available for weeks now...
If you say the image quality is much better on ATi, i think ill order the PC 3870 PCS

Greetings,
Periscope

[kylania]

This is disappointing, I was thinking about getting the new 8800GT soon since it plays EVE beautifully. Back to the planning stages!

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I won't despair if I were you. ATI lags behind in Shaders (one of the reasons I got NVidia). You don't base your GC on just one game. My late X800 Pro played Doom 3 and Half Life 2 beautifully. The other games so-so. New games I have like Crysis, Gears of War and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare all played great on the new card. Your choice of GC is based on a matter of personal choice.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Periscope

Its because the 8800GT has got the G92 chipset.. That would be my guess.
I also heard that e.g. in Flight Simulator 2004 the G92 chipset just leads to annoying flickering and some people even do not get AA & AF to work correctly, etc.

@Rubini: Did you try out nHancer so far?
BTW: I almost got the same rig as you... But I decided to take the ASUS P5E MB instead of Gigabyte. I'm now waiting for my Gainward 8800GT 512 GS GLH which isn't available for weeks now...
If you say the image quality is much better on ATi, i think ill order the PC 3870 PCS

Greetings,
Periscope

No, I haven't tried nHancer yet but I will and will post my finds for Sh3/Sh4 here soon. Thanks for the tip.

Originally Posted by DavyJonesFootlocker

I won't despair if I were you. ATI lags behind in Shaders (one of the reasons I got NVidia). You don't base your GC on just one game. My late X800 Pro played Doom 3 and Half Life 2 beautifully. The other games so-so. New games I have like Crysis, Gears of War and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare all played great on the new card. Your choice of GC is based on a matter of personal choice.

You are right, my new 8800GT runs TombRaider Annyversary and CD4 very well...but the shimmering textures are noticeable in CD4 and Crysis, mainly at night...as this is an old issue I guess that Nvidia drivers had the time to fix this, no?? I just cant understand why they don't fixed it as this is a old issue in all the games boards.

About the new Ati cards, well, the problem is really only with Crysis (a bit more slow than the acceptable - until now). As I'm a eye candy guy and as I like some old sims...I can change the cards without problems if a fix don't apperas for this in time.

But, if i knew about these issues before I buy the new card I surely had bought an Ati card. My 2 cents. (sorry by my english... )

[Rubini]

Our friend Periscope suggested nHancer tweak as a probable solution and he was right: nHancer solved the problem and save my day!
Yeah, Nvidia also can show the same image quality present on ATI cards: it´s the most obvious supersampling (SS) AA modes that are hide on the Nvidia drives!

This will bring some FPS hit (from 20 to 60%, depends on the SS AA mode that you will use - and nHancer provides a lot of them) but for these new cards and rigs this isn´t a real issue. I also didn´t test these new settings with others old sims but the result shall be the same good one. And after all that i become to think if new Nvidia cards have really more FPS than new ATi cards with AA enabled or are just only cheats???

I will try to write a special guide for Nvidia&SH games&ImageQuality using nHancer and will post here.

Thanks again Periscope!

[Periscope]

Hi Rubini!
I followed your topics, both in the SH3 and SH4 section.
I'm glad that my clue was the doorway to success.
I got the tip with nHancer from a german forum which is all about Flight Simulation.
In the case of FS9 and FSX, the G92 chipset also leads to flickering, etc. how I said.
The problem is that in the case of those two games, nHancer does only partly help...
On some rigs it fixes the problems very fast whether other people do have to check out all options in nHancer in a trial and error system... and some even don't get a nice result then.
However, I'm looking forward to your How To and I'm curious about your settings. Perhaps you add some comparison pictures? With / Without nHancer activated? Just an idea.

I, myself ordered the PC HD3870 PCS yesterday because it is available to deliver - in opposition to my first choice; the Gainward card... I should have read your post earlier, then I would have kept my actual order.
I think I have to agree with Davy Jones Footlocker, it was a personal choice: i had ATi cards for several years and never experienced driver problems, so I took her.

Perhaps I'll send her back to hell if your nHancer settings really kick-ass
Im able to return it within 14 days so show me what nHancer can do.

Have a nice weekend!
Periscope

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Periscope

Hi Rubini!
I followed your topics, both in the SH3 and SH4 section.
I'm glad that my clue was the doorway to success.
I got the tip with nHancer from a german forum which is all about Flight Simulation.
In the case of FS9 and FSX, the G92 chipset also leads to flickering, etc. how I said.
The problem is that in the case of those two games, nHancer does only partly help...
On some rigs it fixes the problems very fast whether other people do have to check out all options in nHancer in a trial and error system... and some even don't get a nice result then.
However, I'm looking forward to your How To and I'm curious about your settings. Perhaps you add some comparison pictures? With / Without nHancer activated? Just an idea.

I, myself ordered the PC HD3870 PCS yesterday because it is available to deliver - in opposition to my first choice; the Gainward card... I should have read your post earlier, then I would have kept my actual order.
I think I have to agree with Davy Jones Footlocker, it was a personal choice: i had ATi cards for several years and never experienced driver problems, so I took her.

Perhaps I'll send her back to hell if your nHancer settings really kick-ass
Im able to return it within 14 days so show me what nHancer can do.

Have a nice weekend!
Periscope

Hi Periscope,

The main settings when using nHancer (what is very easy to use) where you already start to see very good quality image are these:

- Just open the main nHancer page, check "Global settings", then in the AA modes check "Supersampling", then check 4x4 (the better one, quality like ATi cards "out of box", but huge FPS hit on Nvidia ) or 16xS (good FPS, quality at 80% IMO) or 32xS (huge FPS hit - but better than 4x4 -, quality at 90% IMO). All others AA options aren´t good for Sh3/SH4 and these poor ones are the unique at player disposable in the stock Nvidia drivers! .

- Then, also check AF at 8x or 16x. Run the game and look at the new quality of AA, mainly for middle "distant" ships and the sea surface. Notice that seems that forceware 169.04 runs better FPS (in this case) than the last WHQL 169.21.

- The others tweaks are just fine tunning and aren´t in truth so important.

Then to resume: nHancer shows to the player hidden AA modes on Nvidia drivers - which are standard on ATI cards - that really make huge difference in image quality for some games like SH3/4. Why?? Just becouse they inflict a huge FPS hit on Nvidia hardware!

IMHO, this is a true absurd!!

[Ping Jockey]

Anyone have power problems with there 8800/GT? Dell says you should have at least a 425w PSU to power the card right.