ASW tactics, I was wondering

Kristian2 · 12-27-07, 08:08 AM

Not that it is difficult enough to escape, but I was wondering whether destroyers (in GWX) also shutdown their engines in the vicinity of a U-boot and just sit and wait. I believe this was one of the tactics deployed by Walker, who sank the most U-boots in the Atlantic (not by sitting and waiting alone appearantly).

danlisa · 12-27-07, 08:11 AM

They certainly will.

This occurs more often when 2 or more escorts are searching for you. 1 will listen for you while the other conducts DC runs.

That's when it gets really dangerous and tricky to escape.

Kristian2 · 12-27-07, 08:46 AM

I haven't played any campaigns yet

(still reading the manual), but in single mission "Malta" I experienced similar behaviour but I wasn't sure they actual shutdown the engine (there was still smoke I thought).
This particular mission in GWX2 crashes before "noch nicht so lange her". I see no problem with it in the missioneditor, it also happened in another single mission.

edtench · 01-24-08, 02:39 PM

This week I have had the misfortune to encounter a cargo convoy and a destroyer task force in the same vicinity (albeit going in slightly different directions). I sank two destroyers right away, thinking that the convoy had perhaps 3 destroyers as escorts. What I didn't know was that there was a destroyer taskforce also, with 5 or 6 more destroyers of various types. My boldness got me into some deep doodoo.

Anyway, I have spent about 3 hours of real time trying to get away from this net. It's amazing how well the destroyers seem to cooperate with each other (i.e., good AI in SH3) in locating my sub and then attacking it.

Lucky for me, the sun is beginning to go down so I will be able to go to periscope depth and hopefully make my getaway.

Jimbuna · 01-24-08, 02:53 PM

They are often very reminiscent of the tactics that were practiced to near perfection by Johnny Walker and similar ASW groups

TarJak · 01-24-08, 06:26 PM

For a good view of British DD and escort tactics during the Battle of the Atlantic, read U-Boat Killer by Capt. Donald Macintyre. He describes how the "creeping attack" as they called it was developed which involved one DD sitting quite listening on hydrophones whilst others actively pinged and DC'd the target u-boat.

harzfeld · 01-25-08, 02:13 AM

curious, do they run out of depth charges in game? If so, I like to know how many DC per types of DD can carry. I remember reading somewhere about a British destroyer or escort have been chasing after one U-boat for 1-2 hours in WW2 but gave up to run off to other important mission or the convoy was in danger of another U-boat or being out of reach for that U-boat which destroyer was after. Is that behavior included in GWX 2.0, perhaps crews on DDs have fatigues can be included too? I still have 1.3 verison, plan on download 2.1 when it comes out. I am on wireless, it would take me long time to download but I think 2.1 would be worth it.

Jimbuna · 01-25-08, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harzfeld

curious, do they run out of depth charges in game? If so, I like to know how many DC per types of DD can carry. I remember reading somewhere about a British destroyer or escort have been chasing after one U-boat for 1-2 hours in WW2 but gave up to run off to other important mission or the convoy was in danger of another U-boat or being out of reach for that U-boat which destroyer was after. Is that behavior included in GWX 2.0, perhaps crews on DDs have fatigues can be included too? I still have 1.3 verison, plan on download 2.1 when it comes out. I am on wireless, it would take me long time to download but I think 2.1 would be worth it.

There is a limit to the number of DC's an escort carries, can't remember off the top of my head, but the number differs class by class.
There is also a time limit regarding how long an escort will hang around after having lost you as a contact. Again I'm not sure how long, but it used to be 20 minutes game time.

TarJak · 01-25-08, 05:08 AM

Each escort type carries an historically accurate loadout of DC's from what I remember. I think the highest number is upwards of 220 or so. I've been under a Corvette with a much lower load out that ran out and just sat there circling overhead keeping ASDIC contact on me until I decided to blow him away with a torp.

Kristian2 · 01-25-08, 05:34 AM

Since this game is essentially about sensors and AI, I regret somewhat there is no documentation available about how these aspects are modelled.

Jimbuna · 01-25-08, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian2

Since this game is essentially about sensors and AI, I regret somewhat there is no documentation available about how these aspects are modelled.

Countless hours were spent studying, adjusting and testing the sensors. We believe they are pretty accurate when taking into consideration the confines and limitations of the game engine.
There are numerous sources on the internet for reading/studying purposes

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...hip/de-ww2.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonar

Kpt. Lehmann · 01-25-08, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edtench

This week I have had the misfortune to encounter a cargo convoy and a destroyer task force in the same vicinity (albeit going in slightly different directions). I sank two destroyers right away, thinking that the convoy had perhaps 3 destroyers as escorts. What I didn't know was that there was a destroyer taskforce also, with 5 or 6 more destroyers of various types. My boldness got me into some deep doodoo.

Anyway, I have spent about 3 hours of real time trying to get away from this net. It's amazing how well the destroyers seem to cooperate with each other (i.e., good AI in SH3) in locating my sub and then attacking it.

Lucky for me, the sun is beginning to go down so I will be able to go to periscope depth and hopefully make my getaway.

Welcome to Subsim, edtench.

ReallyDedPoet · 01-25-08, 07:57 AM

Welcome to SUBSIM

edtench

RDP

Sailor Steve · 01-25-08, 03:01 PM

They also did it in the stock game. One of my first experiences with the game was the big convoy attack mission. I had my sound man reporting the nearest warship. After a few reports he suddenly said "Contact lost on bearing xxx." I took a quick peek with the external cam, and there he was, 500 meters away, just sitting and listening.

12-27-07, 08:08 AM	#1
Kristian2 Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 46 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	ASW tactics, I was wondering Not that it is difficult enough to escape, but I was wondering whether destroyers (in GWX) also shutdown their engines in the vicinity of a U-boot and just sit and wait. I believe this was one of the tactics deployed by Walker, who sank the most U-boots in the Atlantic (not by sitting and waiting alone appearantly).

12-27-07, 08:11 AM	#2
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	They certainly will. This occurs more often when 2 or more escorts are searching for you. 1 will listen for you while the other conducts DC runs. That's when it gets really dangerous and tricky to escape. __________________

01-24-08, 02:53 PM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,475 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	They are often very reminiscent of the tactics that were practiced to near perfection by Johnny Walker and similar ASW groups __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-25-08, 07:57 AM	#13
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,884 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Welcome to SUBSIM edtench RDP __________________ Back in the Day

01-25-08, 03:01 PM	#14
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	They also did it in the stock game. One of my first experiences with the game was the big convoy attack mission. I had my sound man reporting the nearest warship. After a few reports he suddenly said "Contact lost on bearing xxx." I took a quick peek with the external cam, and there he was, 500 meters away, just sitting and listening. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-27-07, 08:46 AM	#3
Kristian2 Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 46 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I haven't played any campaigns yet (still reading the manual), but in single mission "Malta" I experienced similar behaviour but I wasn't sure they actual shutdown the engine (there was still smoke I thought). This particular mission in GWX2 crashes before "noch nicht so lange her". I see no problem with it in the missioneditor, it also happened in another single mission.

01-24-08, 02:39 PM	#4
edtench Bilge Rat Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	This week I have had the misfortune to encounter a cargo convoy and a destroyer task force in the same vicinity (albeit going in slightly different directions). I sank two destroyers right away, thinking that the convoy had perhaps 3 destroyers as escorts. What I didn't know was that there was a destroyer taskforce also, with 5 or 6 more destroyers of various types. My boldness got me into some deep doodoo. Anyway, I have spent about 3 hours of real time trying to get away from this net. It's amazing how well the destroyers seem to cooperate with each other (i.e., good AI in SH3) in locating my sub and then attacking it. Lucky for me, the sun is beginning to go down so I will be able to go to periscope depth and hopefully make my getaway.

01-24-08, 06:26 PM	#6
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	For a good view of British DD and escort tactics during the Battle of the Atlantic, read U-Boat Killer by Capt. Donald Macintyre. He describes how the "creeping attack" as they called it was developed which involved one DD sitting quite listening on hydrophones whilst others actively pinged and DC'd the target u-boat.

01-25-08, 02:13 AM	#7
harzfeld Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 135 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	curious, do they run out of depth charges in game? If so, I like to know how many DC per types of DD can carry. I remember reading somewhere about a British destroyer or escort have been chasing after one U-boat for 1-2 hours in WW2 but gave up to run off to other important mission or the convoy was in danger of another U-boat or being out of reach for that U-boat which destroyer was after. Is that behavior included in GWX 2.0, perhaps crews on DDs have fatigues can be included too? I still have 1.3 verison, plan on download 2.1 when it comes out. I am on wireless, it would take me long time to download but I think 2.1 would be worth it.

01-25-08, 05:08 AM	#9
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Each escort type carries an historically accurate loadout of DC's from what I remember. I think the highest number is upwards of 220 or so. I've been under a Corvette with a much lower load out that ran out and just sat there circling overhead keeping ASDIC contact on me until I decided to blow him away with a torp.

01-25-08, 05:34 AM	#10
Kristian2 Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 46 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Since this game is essentially about sensors and AI, I regret somewhat there is no documentation available about how these aspects are modelled.