LIT SHIPS

paul7271 · 12-26-07, 10:20 PM

Came across two ships during patrol to DH54, they are bearing PORTUGAL
flags.The larger of the two has two spot lights illuminating it's flag.Both
ships were fully lit,side markers,cabin,lights,and mast,stern,bow lights.
The sighting was at 23:00,darkand heavy seas.they get a pass or
sink em?

12-26-07, 10:23 PM

Neutral ships were lit.

GoldenRivet · 12-26-07, 11:15 PM

neutral ships knew that u-boats were raising hell in the atlantic, and they used nearly every possible means to protect themselves from attack. this included lighting up their flags and running with all lights on... this is pretty much what ships do all the time.

chances are when you see a ship travelling blacked out it is because he is trying not to draw attention to himself... because he is an enemy ship.

some neutral ships even would go so far as to write in large letters on the port and starboard sides of the ship the name of the country of registry... ie.

"P O R T U G A L"

or they would occasionally paint a large example of their flag on the side of the ship so that from a long distance any of the warring nations could quickly ID them as non-target..

Kptlt. Neuerburg · 12-26-07, 11:54 PM

I found something every strange on my 8th patrol. I found a convoy off the east coast of Scotland, but it wasn't your normal eveyday convoy. It was a mixed convoy consisting of three destoryers as escorts, about four british ships, a large amount of norwegian ships at least ten or so one swedish ship and two finnish ships. But the ships from norway, finland, and sweden didn't have their lights on even though all of these countrys are curently neutral as its early 1940.

GoldenRivet · 12-27-07, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kptlt. Hellmut Neuerburg

I found something every strange on my 8th patrol. I found a convoy off the east coast of Scotland, but it wasn't your normal eveyday convoy. It was a mixed convoy consisting of three destoryers as escorts, about four british ships, a large amount of norwegian ships at least ten or so one swedish ship and two finnish ships. But the ships from norway, finland, and sweden didn't have their lights on even though all of these countrys are curently neutral as its early 1940.

as a general rule of thumb... if you are a neutral ship traveling within a non-neutral convoy... navigational lights are a no-no because they easily give away the position of the rest of the convoy.

smoking on your watch shift was also out of the question... (i dont remember the number) BUT i read somewhere that on a clear, calm night, in perfect dark with no moon the human eye can see a match strike or a cigarette lighter light up at some insane distance (it was like 50 miles)

also, this rule of engangement is not simulated within SH3... but im fairly certain that ships traveling under british escort were fair game for attack even if they were of neutral registry... so, you would not have lit ships within a mixed convoy.

jimmie · 12-27-07, 04:59 AM

I think if you lit control room (deck? what's the english word) at the night, you can't see a thing ouside and it's very dagnerous obviously and so it must be very unrealistic. Cabin and flags yes but not control room I think.

GoldenRivet · 12-27-07, 12:42 PM

the cabin/control room of ships are lit with red lights.

red lights are not detrimental to night vision like white lights are. this is why the u-boat interior lights are red at night... it is also why aircraft cockpit lights are red at night.

control rooms were lit.

irish1958 · 12-27-07, 12:54 PM

jimmie,
The control room of a ship is called "the Bridge."

Rwolf · 12-27-07, 02:58 PM

In the beginning of the war, from what I read at uboatarchive.net, there were some very strange rules passed out to the boats; they were expected to go by 'prize rules' and had to board the vessels to make sure of the nationality, as well as examine manifesto to see if it was worth taking as a prize, or just sinking it.

Even with french ships in convoys with british, the initial orders were to not touch any french merchants, which meant the subs could never make night attacks, since flags were impossible to see in the darkened convoys.
This policy changed pretty soon, and by -43 I read even well lit up neutrals were targets for the submarines.

Blacklight · 12-27-07, 02:59 PM

Question... In GWX 2.0, I've come accross on occasion ships from neutral nations without their lights on at night. According to history, these ships were considered fair game as they were "behaving in a suspicious manner". If I sink these ships, will I get penalized for it as if I had sunk a neutral ship with it's lights on or is it considered an "Allied" ship that is providing war goods to the enemy ?

Ciderman · 12-27-07, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

Question... In GWX 2.0, I've come accross on occasion ships from neutral nations without their lights on at night. According to history, these ships were considered fair game as they were "behaving in a suspicious manner". If I sink these ships, will I get penalized for it as if I had sunk a neutral ship with it's lights on or is it considered an "Allied" ship that is providing war goods to the enemy ?

Very good question, anyone have the answer.

bigboywooly · 12-27-07, 05:00 PM

Yep
You will be penalized for sinking ANY neutral ship
Dark or lit

Nerazzurri · 12-27-07, 05:25 PM

.....and regardless of if it was travelling in an allied convoy.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 12-28-07, 12:43 AM

When I run across a ship, where I do not know it's nationality, I get ahead of its track. I submerge to periscope depth so I am 90 degrees aob. I find that within 1200 to 1000 meters I can make out nationalities reliably. If he's nuetral, I let him pass. If not, well..thats a given. Usefull for daytime when the spot light thing is not an issue.

On a side note: If the seas are calm, and the target is slow, I run up on them with the deck gun manned. If the target starts to zig zag, its enemy. If he doesnt zigzag, he's definately a friendly. I do not know yet if nuetrals will zig zag. I just found this out cruising up the coast of Norway in 1940. Some Ore Carriers with the nazi flag never adjusted course when I approached. By that time, Norwegian vessels would, but when hitting F1 to see Enemies of Germany, they are enemies by this time, so their response is what an enemy would do.

I think the zigzagging would be 'behaving in a suspicious manner'.

SurfnSea · 12-28-07, 01:03 AM

I came upon 2 British merchants early in the war; they're still neutral apparently. Well, One was zig-zagging and so like a cat, sudden movement made us leap to action. Now, the ship was zig-zagging because it was fired upon...who did such a thing in the wide expanse of the Atlantic I dunno. Anyway, both merchants are now contributing to the ecology of the ocean floor by expanding the coral reef.

I'm wondering if those two British ships will still be considered neutral tonnage even after I return to port, at which time the British will be enemies (not sure if the actions of our U-Boat are the cause of this

)

12-26-07, 10:20 PM	#1
paul7271 Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 60 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 0	LIT SHIPS Came across two ships during patrol to DH54, they are bearing PORTUGAL flags.The larger of the two has two spot lights illuminating it's flag.Both ships were fully lit,side markers,cabin,lights,and mast,stern,bow lights. The sighting was at 23:00,darkand heavy seas.they get a pass or sink em?

12-26-07, 11:15 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	neutral ships knew that u-boats were raising hell in the atlantic, and they used nearly every possible means to protect themselves from attack. this included lighting up their flags and running with all lights on... this is pretty much what ships do all the time. chances are when you see a ship travelling blacked out it is because he is trying not to draw attention to himself... because he is an enemy ship. some neutral ships even would go so far as to write in large letters on the port and starboard sides of the ship the name of the country of registry... ie. "P O R T U G A L" or they would occasionally paint a large example of their flag on the side of the ship so that from a long distance any of the warring nations could quickly ID them as non-target.. __________________

12-26-07, 11:54 PM	#4
Kptlt. Neuerburg Admiral Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,279 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	I found something every strange on my 8th patrol. I found a convoy off the east coast of Scotland, but it wasn't your normal eveyday convoy. It was a mixed convoy consisting of three destoryers as escorts, about four british ships, a large amount of norwegian ships at least ten or so one swedish ship and two finnish ships. But the ships from norway, finland, and sweden didn't have their lights on even though all of these countrys are curently neutral as its early 1940. __________________ "When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat." - George Carlin

12-27-07, 12:42 PM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	the cabin/control room of ships are lit with red lights. red lights are not detrimental to night vision like white lights are. this is why the u-boat interior lights are red at night... it is also why aircraft cockpit lights are red at night. control rooms were lit. __________________

12-27-07, 12:54 PM	#8
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	jimmie, The control room of a ship is called "the Bridge." __________________ Irish1958

12-26-07, 10:23 PM	#2
Kraut Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Neutral ships were lit.

12-27-07, 04:59 AM	#6
jimmie Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 259 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think if you lit control room (deck? what's the english word) at the night, you can't see a thing ouside and it's very dagnerous obviously and so it must be very unrealistic. Cabin and flags yes but not control room I think.

12-27-07, 02:58 PM	#9
Rwolf Watch Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 21 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	In the beginning of the war, from what I read at uboatarchive.net, there were some very strange rules passed out to the boats; they were expected to go by 'prize rules' and had to board the vessels to make sure of the nationality, as well as examine manifesto to see if it was worth taking as a prize, or just sinking it. Even with french ships in convoys with british, the initial orders were to not touch any french merchants, which meant the subs could never make night attacks, since flags were impossible to see in the darkened convoys. This policy changed pretty soon, and by -43 I read even well lit up neutrals were targets for the submarines.

12-27-07, 02:59 PM	#10
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	Question... In GWX 2.0, I've come accross on occasion ships from neutral nations without their lights on at night. According to history, these ships were considered fair game as they were "behaving in a suspicious manner". If I sink these ships, will I get penalized for it as if I had sunk a neutral ship with it's lights on or is it considered an "Allied" ship that is providing war goods to the enemy ? __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

12-27-07, 05:00 PM	#12
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Yep You will be penalized for sinking ANY neutral ship Dark or lit __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

12-27-07, 05:25 PM	#13
Nerazzurri Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 392 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	.....and regardless of if it was travelling in an allied convoy. __________________ GWX v3.0 Gold, Commander v3.2. WINDOWS 10, G3258 @ 3.8Ghz, 8GB RAM, GTX 960 2Gb.

12-28-07, 12:43 AM	#14
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	When I run across a ship, where I do not know it's nationality, I get ahead of its track. I submerge to periscope depth so I am 90 degrees aob. I find that within 1200 to 1000 meters I can make out nationalities reliably. If he's nuetral, I let him pass. If not, well..thats a given. Usefull for daytime when the spot light thing is not an issue. On a side note: If the seas are calm, and the target is slow, I run up on them with the deck gun manned. If the target starts to zig zag, its enemy. If he doesnt zigzag, he's definately a friendly. I do not know yet if nuetrals will zig zag. I just found this out cruising up the coast of Norway in 1940. Some Ore Carriers with the nazi flag never adjusted course when I approached. By that time, Norwegian vessels would, but when hitting F1 to see Enemies of Germany, they are enemies by this time, so their response is what an enemy would do. I think the zigzagging would be 'behaving in a suspicious manner'.

12-28-07, 01:03 AM	#15
SurfnSea Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 137 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I came upon 2 British merchants early in the war; they're still neutral apparently. Well, One was zig-zagging and so like a cat, sudden movement made us leap to action. Now, the ship was zig-zagging because it was fired upon...who did such a thing in the wide expanse of the Atlantic I dunno. Anyway, both merchants are now contributing to the ecology of the ocean floor by expanding the coral reef. I'm wondering if those two British ships will still be considered neutral tonnage even after I return to port, at which time the British will be enemies (not sure if the actions of our U-Boat are the cause of this )