[WIP] Titanium/Nuke and tweaked Damage Mods....

[CaptainHaplo]

For those few who enjoyed the Titanium or Nuke boat mods - a version that is 1.4 ok should be out - probably over the weekend. However, I need a bit of feedback. With the great new tools out, and an increased understanding - I can correct the biggest flaw of the mods - the hull being nearly indestructable, but the interior getting smashed to bits. I played with a test gato last eve - and could sit on the surface next to the Yamato and take full broadsides from her - without a dent - externally OR internally. No crew got hurt, no one shouting "MEDIC!!!!!", not a single shade of red on the DC screen. I even rammed an Ise on the surface without needing so much as a touch up of paint.....

Thing is - is this what you want? An indestructable boat? Or should I keep it where you can still be damaged a bit if your too careless?

Second - and personally more important - I will be creating a tweaked damage mod. As it is now - many see an entire compartment get hosed, but the boat still be salvageable. Things like the hull holds together, but the engines are destroyed, or the torp room is leaking just a little but you lost 4 out of 6 tubes. With the way it is now - some equipment is just to... exposed. Heck - take a shell on the hull - apparently the hole it made can be patched up, but the stuff inside is shot till you get back to the barn. I am going to try and fix that - but there will be no "invulnerable" pieces.

What I ask for is this - give perspective on what you think needs tweaking - and how. This isnt for realism sake - though I would like to get it closer to realistic. Basically - I have my own list of things to tweak - and how - but cmon - throw some others out and we will see what comes from it. I do ask that no one trashes anyone else's idea - state your case as you see it - dont get into a back and forth.

Oh - and in case anyone wants to know - its hilarious to launch a torp when your going faster than it is - have it pass THRU the interior of the sub while its waiting to arm - then go BOOM when it starts to exit the hull! And yes - still no damage. But I did get a "Torpedo impact!" message and I could swear I heard the crew cheer!

[GeoffBelding]

Hi CaptainHaplo - I, being a Brit, am not an expert, or even very knowledgable in the real Pacific war.

I hate the standard game when you have some hull damage, and dive to max depth in a hurry to see that you have killed the boat and the crew, so the extra hull strength of the 1.3 nuke version of your mod saved me from that fate many times, and made the sim more playable.

I enjoyed the extra speed of the nuke boat on occasions, but went 'low and slow' most of the time to avoid the escorts. But when you're out of torpedos, in shallow water, and know that a surface gun battle means certain death, to go faster than the escorts brings a BIG smile to my face. Again more playable.

I don't want to have an invincible boat, but 'damage when careless' seems a good approach.

I'm sorry that I can't add any technical elements to this, but I'm sure others can and will.

Keep up the excellent work.

Cheers and a Happy Christmas

Geoff

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

With the great new tools out, and an increased understanding - I can correct the biggest flaw of the mods - the hull being nearly indestructable, but the interior getting smashed to bits. I played with a test gato last eve - and could sit on the surface next to the Yamato and take full broadsides from her - without a dent - externally OR internally. No crew got hurt, no one shouting "MEDIC!!!!!", not a single shade of red on the DC screen. I even rammed an Ise on the surface without needing so much as a touch up of paint.....

So I take it you've changed the Armor Level and (possibly) Hitpoints in the Zones.cfg file as well? If yes, did you also change the value of any compartment that had Armor -1? What about the (Hitpoint and Crew/Equipment Exposure) values in the .upc files, did you change those too? Sounds quite interesting, I'll sure dissect this mod when you release it to compare it to my home-brewed "Mithril Boat"
FYI, I've changed the values in all the aforementioned files. Still get some damage and injuries, and that annoying water spray in the command room, but I'm able to submerge just fine and not drop like a stone to Davey Jone's locker.

[CaptainHaplo]

Actually my good Dr.Beast, all I did was edit the .zon file for the gato. There is something like 35 total zones in there - some sphere, most box, plus the end "CollisionableObject" that turns out to be the actual hull. I just set them all to have armor of 500 and nothing touches them. I am tweaking each zone to figure out where it is - its taking alot more than I initially thought - but slow progress is still progress.

This would be impossible without all the info garnered from the smart guys that mod here - and the great tools created - like what I am using now - Silent 3ditor.
My thanks goes to all those minds out there who have helped!

[Tigrone]

The one aspect that I like and is important to me is the deep dive. I would like to be able to safely dive to 1.5 times the present limits. Essentially I just want to always be able to safely go to the boats' historically reported depths safely. Several US boats reported dives to 450 feet, and I would like to know that I can go there safely.

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Actually my good Dr.Beast, all I did was edit the .zon file for the gato. There is something like 35 total zones in there - some sphere, most box, plus the end "CollisionableObject" that turns out to be the actual hull. I just set them all to have armor of 500 and nothing touches them. I am tweaking each zone to figure out where it is - its taking alot more than I initially thought - but slow progress is still progress.

This would be impossible without all the info garnered from the smart guys that mod here - and the great tools created - like what I am using now - Silent 3ditor.
My thanks goes to all those minds out there who have helped!

Makes perfect sense. I had tweaked the .upc files long before I learned that it's the stuff in .zon and zones.cfg that have a greater impact (aside from the actual hull hit points and armor) - my thanks to tater for pointing me in that direction! And I agree wholeheartedly, S3D Editor is an invaluable tool!

ETA: Since you're asking for our opinion, I'd say make the boats sinkable, but after sustaining an extensive beating. Also, having certain parts that are career-breakers indestructible (such as the engines) would be neat. Faster diving/ascending times would also be nice, but don't go overboard there...from personal experience, higher speeds+faster diving times turns the boat into a pendulum! I once saw a heavily modded Balao shoot out of the water after surfacing from 50 meters at 30 knots, dive back to roughly 30 meters, resurface, dive again to periscope depth and then make a final surface! :rotfl:

[CaptainHaplo]

This balance is going to take a lot longer than I thought - turns out there are 50-60 zones in one boat, and I am trying to figure out which ones are what but it appears they overlap. I am seeing more zones than there is equipment at this point - I am beginning to think I am over my head.

The current testing go around right now - I have set all the armor to the same as a armored warship (50-60) and it seems to be workable for Nukeboats. I am going to have to see if I can up the HP on the engines to make em immune or darn near indestructable. Give it a bit more time guys - and thanks for the interest and ideas!

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

I am going to have to see if I can up the HP on the engines to make em immune or darn near indestructable. Give it a bit more time guys - and thanks for the interest and ideas!

According to tater, if the room that hosts them gets hosed, the equipment inside is automatically destroyed as well. So make sure to armor the engine room (or whatever compartment the .zon or zones. cfg file points to) sufficiently as well.
Take your time, mate, noone's rushing you

[TheSandman]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Thing is - is this what you want? An indestructable boat? Or should I keep it where you can still be damaged a bit if your too careless?

Why not do two versions, one that is indestructable, and one that is closer to the original nuke/titanium boat mod? That way both crowds are happy, and it shouldn't take too long to do two versions.

[woodenplank]

So, when will we see a 1.4 compatible version of the Titanium mod?

[CaptainHaplo]

Probably January 1. Will try and include the Narwhal as well so its TM compatible....

[woodenplank]

Sweet! Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work.

As for Indestructable ships versus ALMOST indestructable ships, I second the idea of options for either/or. Assuming, of course, that its feazable. Personally, if Im going for such unrealism, I want to go all the way (indestructable), but I know not everyone would agree.

Also, I wouldnt mind seeing if it would be possible to combine your mod with concepts of the other unrealism mods out there that havent been ported over to 1.4 yet, such as improved torp and deck gun damage/speed/ammo loadouts, etc. I never had the pleasure of using your earlier mods, so I dont know if this was something you had done previously or not.

[CaptainHaplo]

OK - the mod is done - however I am trying to upload it to rapidshare and its being a pain. Anyone know of anywhere else I can upload it - its less than 30k and I dont want to jump thru 1000 hoops to slap it up somewhere.....

[TheSandman]

Filefront ftw?

[CaptainHaplo]

Thank ya Sandman - V1.2 is up - http://files.filefront.com/Nuke+Boat.../fileinfo.html

By request - it does include the Narwhal if your using TM..... It will not however add that boat if your not using a mod that gives it to you in the first place. Enjoy!