ID manual of real captains in ww2

Jaeger · 11-29-07, 12:36 PM

in the german ubi forum, someone asked for the way, real captains made a torpdeo solution in ww2. i answered him, that they used the kreisrechenschieber (instrument simulated in olc gui) and a stoppuhr for this. sometimes they estimated speed by observing the bug wave or by taking a parallel course and speed with their own boat. thats the answer for their instruments. but what about the identification manual? did they have an ID book where they could find all the data we have in sh3? how many different ship types could they meet in the atlantic? how often did they meet ships, which they could not find in their id books? and how often did they have to estimate hight or length? were there formulars for estimation? are there some real id manuals, which could be recherched today?

lots of questions, i know...

Jaeger

BulSoldier · 11-29-07, 12:38 PM

I watched a movie in youtube that was shown for a brief time a book with a black shadows showing only sideway the ship. The book was really big and many ships on a page.

Jaeger · 11-29-07, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulSoldier

I watched a movie in youtube that was shown for a brief time a book with a black shadows showing only sideway the ship. The book was really big and many ships on a page.

do you remember the title of that film?

BulSoldier · 11-29-07, 01:09 PM

i will search and if something hapens to cross my way i will post it right away.

dmlavan · 11-29-07, 01:11 PM

From what I've found by reading numerous books, the manual they typically used was made by Weyers. The title was something along the lines of "Weyer's Taschenbuch". Weyers is the German equivalent of Janes, and you can still find updated versions today. Every now and then you can find an original WW2-era version on Ebay as well.

candy2500 · 11-29-07, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulSoldier

I watched a movie in youtube that was shown for a brief time a book with a black shadows showing only sideway the ship. The book was really big and many ships on a page.

yes.. i seen the same thing but it was on a TV documentary. it was a big and long looking thick book with blacken pics of ships but the one in the documentary i seen it had a side view and a forward view and from back view. the forward and back view was small pics under a much bigger and longer side view.

BulSoldier · 11-29-07, 01:25 PM

i cant remember in detail.The kaleun (i think) was looking through periscop and one of the oficers was showing the book.Indeed long thick book (may be only the pages were thick,but in any case it seems the whole books contained many many ships)

Hitman · 11-29-07, 03:15 PM

The Kaleun was Erich Topp, and the film was done during one of his patrols during Drumbeat, when a reporter was taken aboard. The video can be seen in You Tube here:

Fast forward to 4 minutes and 17 seconds...the IWO hears what the captain tells about the ship and looks in the recognition manual, then shows it to the captain for confirmation

Jaeger · 11-29-07, 04:01 PM

your link doesnt work. "file removed by user"... perhaps wrong link?

edit: i found some nice reprints and also original books by ebay: weihers flottentaschenbuch. i think i need one, will try to hunt in sh3 with an original book. would be also interesting, if there are complete mast hights and length in it...

edit2: i served in the german marine as a signal guest and i remember we used the janes recognition manual...

danlisa · 11-29-07, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaeger

But what about the identification manual? Did they have an ID book where they could find all the data we have in sh3?

Yes, they had a Kreigsmarine ID book and while I have never actually seen one, the information was taken from pre-war knowledge, neutral merchant reports & actual contact encounters.

I have examples of a US recognition manual showing a sample of the German Vessels from an ID book dated in 1943.
The full pack contains US, UK, JPN, ITN & GER ship ID's

Here's a few examples of what the yanks had.

Jaeger · 11-29-07, 07:03 PM

thanks for information. looks like the devs copied the american book for sh3. are there images from a german id book anywhere?

Checkmate King 2 · 11-30-07, 03:07 PM

I know for sure they used Lloyd's Registry

flag4 · 11-30-07, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaeger

But what about the identification manual? Did they have an ID book where they could find all the data we have in sh3?

Yes, they had a Kreigsmarine ID book and while I have never actually seen one, the information was taken from pre-war knowledge, neutral merchant reports & actual contact encounters.

I have examples of a US recognition manual showing a sample of the German Vessels from an ID book dated in 1943.
The full pack contains US, UK, JPN, ITN & GER ship ID's

Here's a few examples of what the yanks had.

CERTAINLY DO NOT wish to sound disrespectful, but these would make great mouse mats - gonna do one, get it laminated !!

Jonathan · 11-30-07, 05:17 PM

Man...one of those ships had a seaplane on the back of it...I wonder how successful there getting that thing on and off the boat and into the drink.

bigboywooly · 11-30-07, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Man...one of those ships had a seaplane on the back of it...I wonder how successful there getting that thing on and off the boat and into the drink.

Most battleships and indeed heavy cruisers carried seaplanes
Usually on\off loaded with a crane though some had short skid sections with catapaults the aircraft could take straight off from

Arado being hauled back on the Blucher

Bismarck hoisting its back onboard

And a Kingfisher coming off USS Quincy

And a Walrus being bought back onboard HMS Nigeria

11-29-07, 12:36 PM	#1
Jaeger Chief Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 316 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	ID manual of real captains in ww2 in the german ubi forum, someone asked for the way, real captains made a torpdeo solution in ww2. i answered him, that they used the kreisrechenschieber (instrument simulated in olc gui) and a stoppuhr for this. sometimes they estimated speed by observing the bug wave or by taking a parallel course and speed with their own boat. thats the answer for their instruments. but what about the identification manual? did they have an ID book where they could find all the data we have in sh3? how many different ship types could they meet in the atlantic? how often did they meet ships, which they could not find in their id books? and how often did they have to estimate hight or length? were there formulars for estimation? are there some real id manuals, which could be recherched today? lots of questions, i know... Jaeger

11-29-07, 12:38 PM	#2
BulSoldier Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Burgas/Bulgaria Posts: 550 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I watched a movie in youtube that was shown for a brief time a book with a black shadows showing only sideway the ship. The book was really big and many ships on a page. __________________ By the hour !

11-29-07, 01:09 PM	#4
BulSoldier Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Burgas/Bulgaria Posts: 550 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	i will search and if something hapens to cross my way i will post it right away. __________________ By the hour !

11-29-07, 01:25 PM	#7
BulSoldier Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Burgas/Bulgaria Posts: 550 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	i cant remember in detail.The kaleun (i think) was looking through periscop and one of the oficers was showing the book.Indeed long thick book (may be only the pages were thick,but in any case it seems the whole books contained many many ships) __________________ By the hour !

11-29-07, 03:15 PM	#8
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	The Kaleun was Erich Topp, and the film was done during one of his patrols during Drumbeat, when a reporter was taken aboard. The video can be seen in You Tube here: Fast forward to 4 minutes and 17 seconds...the IWO hears what the captain tells about the ship and looks in the recognition manual, then shows it to the captain for confirmation __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

11-29-07, 01:11 PM	#5
dmlavan Weps Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 351 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	From what I've found by reading numerous books, the manual they typically used was made by Weyers. The title was something along the lines of "Weyer's Taschenbuch". Weyers is the German equivalent of Janes, and you can still find updated versions today. Every now and then you can find an original WW2-era version on Ebay as well.

11-29-07, 04:01 PM	#9
Jaeger Chief Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 316 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	your link doesnt work. "file removed by user"... perhaps wrong link? edit: i found some nice reprints and also original books by ebay: weihers flottentaschenbuch. i think i need one, will try to hunt in sh3 with an original book. would be also interesting, if there are complete mast hights and length in it... edit2: i served in the german marine as a signal guest and i remember we used the janes recognition manual... Last edited by Jaeger; 11-29-07 at 04:17 PM.

11-29-07, 07:03 PM	#11
Jaeger Chief Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 316 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	thanks for information. looks like the devs copied the american book for sh3. are there images from a german id book anywhere?

11-30-07, 03:07 PM	#12
Checkmate King 2 Helmsman Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 109 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	I know for sure they used Lloyd's Registry

11-30-07, 05:17 PM	#14
Jonathan 中国水兵 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 285 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Man...one of those ships had a seaplane on the back of it...I wonder how successful there getting that thing on and off the boat and into the drink. __________________ SHIII Game Manual, In-Game Map, and Quick Reference Chart Can Be Downloaded From This Link: http://hosted.filefront.com/jnazari