[TEC] Japanese Type 21 and Type 22 radar ranges

LukeFF · 11-25-07, 03:07 AM

What file controls these two values? I want to see if they are correct.

AVGWarhawk · 11-25-07, 07:25 AM

I think Tater knows the files.

DrBeast · 11-25-07, 12:38 PM

AI_Sensor.dat. If you use S3D Editor, they're even named such.

LukeFF · 11-25-07, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBeast

AI_Sensor.dat. If you use S3D Editor, they're even named such.

Thanks!

tater · 11-26-07, 11:21 AM

Yeah. The ranges are... well, they have real values in meters, but frankly, at a certain point you just can't tell. Least working with visuals.

My first experiments (visuals) I wanted to see if I could get BBs to duke it out at proper ranges. The idea was to get it working at extreme range for a "BB_Visual" sensor. I set all the various ranges (AI gunnery, as well) to 35,000m. They engage (sound klaxons, etc) at ~9000m regardless of the sensor settings.

I fear that like the DC detonation depth, the AI overrides the settigns somehow. That or the overall visual ranges override things and you can only see out to whatever the max visual is. I tested with a 16km mod in place though to no effect.

It's non-trivial to play with.

rodan54 · 11-26-07, 12:25 PM

That's odd that you couldn't get them to engage any further out than 9km.

I made similar tests for my own purposes a while back with only the following changes to the stock 1.3 game.

AI_Visual.dat > MaxRange increased to 40000 (was 9500)

Sim.cfg > MaxFireRange increased to 40000 (was I think 6000)

Scene.dat > View distance increased to 40km

Scene.dat > Earth Radius increased to ~ double whatever the stock value was

In the test mission I had two Yamatos and two Iowas engaging at ~ 33km. If anything the view distance does infact seem to dictate the engagement range regardless of what the sensor and weapon ranges are set at. And I'm not so sure how well a 40km view distance would sit with most PC's.

tater · 11-26-07, 12:29 PM

I didn't mess with scene.dat. That may be the issue.

tater · 11-26-07, 12:32 PM

I should add that I currently have a mod with many visual sensors. I have a BB visual, a CA/CL/CV version, a DD version, a small warship version, a merchant version, as well as air. The ranges are based upon horizon distances. I think the ideal set up would be to have the max range for BBs be ~70,000m. That's BB to BB. the horizon distance being about 1/2 that. Not sure how the game deals with it though, so a shorter range than reality might be required so that subs are not detected at absurd distances (subs should ALWAYS detect ships first visually, IMO, at the very least because of smoke.

LukeFF · 11-26-07, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Thanks!

Yeesh, those radar ranges are way off. Not just the Type 21 and Type 22 but also the American ones as well. Thankfully there are documents out there that tell what there real ranges were.

But, beyond that, I think all this tinkering with visual engagement ranges should wait until after 1.4 is released. All of this head-scratching may just be for naught.

tater · 11-26-07, 09:04 PM

Yeah, with the new visual limits, that might fix some things.

There are also balance issues. Remember that the area detected, noise, etc are all pretty much made up. Most ranges given for surface search radars are to detect surface combatants, and even then probably under ideal conditions. If the game detects things that are much smaller too easily, then the ranges/surface areas need to be tweaked. I think it gets pretty complicated.

LukeFF · 11-27-07, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Most ranges given for surface search radars are to detect surface combatants, and even then probably under ideal conditions. If the game detects things that are much smaller too easily, then the ranges/surface areas need to be tweaked. I think it gets pretty complicated.

Exactly. A case in point is the SJ-1 radar. It's maximum detetction range was 12nm, while it could detect a submarine at only half that distance. Most of the WWII radars listed in the Radar Operator's Manual (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/radar) also give ranges to surfaced submarines, so that might be the best way to go WRT to radar ranges (for AI units) especially since we don't have any playable surface ships. It's not like the data is lacking. It's just a matter of properly applying it.

11-25-07, 03:07 AM	#1
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	[TEC] Japanese Type 21 and Type 22 radar ranges What file controls these two values? I want to see if they are correct.

11-25-07, 07:25 AM	#2
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,277 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I think Tater knows the files. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

11-25-07, 12:38 PM	#3
DrBeast The Old Man Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Somewhere Out In Space Posts: 1,408 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	AI_Sensor.dat. If you use S3D Editor, they're even named such. __________________ Let the Beast inside you free!

11-26-07, 11:21 AM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah. The ranges are... well, they have real values in meters, but frankly, at a certain point you just can't tell. Least working with visuals. My first experiments (visuals) I wanted to see if I could get BBs to duke it out at proper ranges. The idea was to get it working at extreme range for a "BB_Visual" sensor. I set all the various ranges (AI gunnery, as well) to 35,000m. They engage (sound klaxons, etc) at ~9000m regardless of the sensor settings. I fear that like the DC detonation depth, the AI overrides the settigns somehow. That or the overall visual ranges override things and you can only see out to whatever the max visual is. I tested with a 16km mod in place though to no effect. It's non-trivial to play with.

11-26-07, 12:25 PM	#6
rodan54 Navy Dude Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: California, USA Posts: 176 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	That's odd that you couldn't get them to engage any further out than 9km. I made similar tests for my own purposes a while back with only the following changes to the stock 1.3 game. AI_Visual.dat > MaxRange increased to 40000 (was 9500) Sim.cfg > MaxFireRange increased to 40000 (was I think 6000) Scene.dat > View distance increased to 40km Scene.dat > Earth Radius increased to ~ double whatever the stock value was In the test mission I had two Yamatos and two Iowas engaging at ~ 33km. If anything the view distance does infact seem to dictate the engagement range regardless of what the sensor and weapon ranges are set at. And I'm not so sure how well a 40km view distance would sit with most PC's.

11-26-07, 12:29 PM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I didn't mess with scene.dat. That may be the issue.

11-26-07, 12:32 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I should add that I currently have a mod with many visual sensors. I have a BB visual, a CA/CL/CV version, a DD version, a small warship version, a merchant version, as well as air. The ranges are based upon horizon distances. I think the ideal set up would be to have the max range for BBs be ~70,000m. That's BB to BB. the horizon distance being about 1/2 that. Not sure how the game deals with it though, so a shorter range than reality might be required so that subs are not detected at absurd distances (subs should ALWAYS detect ships first visually, IMO, at the very least because of smoke.

11-26-07, 09:04 PM	#10
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, with the new visual limits, that might fix some things. There are also balance issues. Remember that the area detected, noise, etc are all pretty much made up. Most ranges given for surface search radars are to detect surface combatants, and even then probably under ideal conditions. If the game detects things that are much smaller too easily, then the ranges/surface areas need to be tweaked. I think it gets pretty complicated.