Learner troubles.

Capa · 10-27-07, 07:20 PM

Hi. I'm new to DW and I'm trying to get proficient enough to relax and enjoy it, but hitting multiple walls. I haven't played 688i or Sub Command, nor any other naval game (although I have SHIII now), so some of the fundamental concepts are still hard to get my head around.

Basically I find it hard to bury myself in the manual without wanting to start playing as soon as a concept clicks into place. So either I'm trying to absorb too much information at once or I'm playing badly and getting frustrated. I can do some of the single missions, but only with things like TMA on auto. The most frustrating thing is that I can't complete the first campaign mission with any platform. I find myself aimlessly zooming around with no real sense of progress because it's hard to tell if I'm actually doing things right. The game puts heavy emphasis on implying the situation is real, therefore clear and obvious objectives aren't given. I'm all for that, but the game relies on specific triggers like any other game, it doesn't "Know" what you're doing, it responds to specific actions being performed. For someone like me that limits creativity because I rarely know what the best (or required) plan of action is. The vast majority of the time I'm restlessly waiting and hoping for an objective confirmation that I may never get. "Find and identify all rebel activity" may sound simple enough for a vet or someone at least experience with naval surveillance but to me it feels like finding 10 different needles in a haystack and trying not to get seen by those needles at the same time.

I guess what I'm wondering is if there are any mission walkthroughs for the first one and/or some of the single missions. Getting a general idea of the normal routine and what should or should not be done in most circumstances would probably help a lot. It's all fine having a tome full of great technical specs, but it's not really the technical stuff that's frustrating, it's the general heart of playing that isn't written in the manual. Another thing I seem to end up doing is working up a vast hairball of inaccurate tracks. I'd appreciate some tips on sensor management.

Thanks.

Pisces · 10-27-07, 09:49 PM

Quote:

"Find and identify all rebel activity" may sound simple enough for a vet or someone at least experience with naval surveillance but to me it feels like finding 10 different needles in a haystack and trying not to get seen by those needles at the same time.

Then you're feeling it just as a veteran would take it.

Except that a veteran skipper (which I am far from) would start to listen for 'Auch!' from the other!

Before you take a shot at the campaign missions I would suggest trying this training mission by Molon Labe first:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116888

Also go to www.subguru.com/downloads.html and look for true manuals like the Seawolves "Blue Book of Tactics" or TimmyGoo's "Tactical Manual" and Toptorp's "TMA guide" at least. Other community created manuals found there are also very usefull. The game's manual falls short on why you need to press this button or use that sensor. These manuals explain it very clearly.

This should get you up to speed soon. (but not too noisy, I advise

)

Chock · 10-27-07, 10:27 PM

May or may not be up your street, but what I did when figuring out Sub Command (i.e. Dangerous Waters 1 if you like), was to create a mission in the editor with all kinds of ships surrounding me and set them all up so none of them were hostile to me, in order that I could practice detecting them without having to worry about being fired on or complete a mission or whatever. You can do this without setting the actual location of the ships you intend to practice on, as there is an option to have them spawn at a random location in an area you specify, so it can still be a challenge. The other thing this achieves, is to give you an idea of the kind of triggers there are in the sim, which is a good pointer for the kind of limits you can be on and what the enemy ships objectives can be.

The mission editor in Dangerous Waters is very intuitive, so it will not take you long to set up such a mission for yourself.

Chock

Capa · 10-28-07, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chock

May or may not be up your street, but what I did when figuring out Sub Command (i.e. Dangerous Waters 1 if you like), was to create a mission in the editor with all kinds of ships surrounding me and set them all up so none of them were hostile to me.

I started doing that last night. Problem was I'd put the closest one 10nm away and it was getting late.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take both suggestions.

Reaper51 · 10-28-07, 08:02 PM

If you're having trouble managing the contacts, you also might consider setting up a scenario with only one ship. Then you could practice detection, and TMA, without the confusion of multiple contacts.

Hope this helps.

SquidB · 10-29-07, 08:55 AM

When i was starting out, the best adivice someone gave me was to look in the NB sonar for distant contacts (providing your in a sub of course).

The manual doesnt make this clear. Molon Labes tutorial is an excellent way to get into the game, as it doesnt overload you and covers all the main points as to what you should be doing.

The quick mission generator is another good way of learning. It tends to provide you with instant action and you can experiment with a number of different platforms.

I could never really get into the offical campaign (i didnt like the storyline) however there are a wealth of user missions and campaigns for you to try out. Try ones with 1 or 2 star ratings to begin with.

10-27-07, 07:20 PM	#1
Capa A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 76 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Learner troubles. Hi. I'm new to DW and I'm trying to get proficient enough to relax and enjoy it, but hitting multiple walls. I haven't played 688i or Sub Command, nor any other naval game (although I have SHIII now), so some of the fundamental concepts are still hard to get my head around. Basically I find it hard to bury myself in the manual without wanting to start playing as soon as a concept clicks into place. So either I'm trying to absorb too much information at once or I'm playing badly and getting frustrated. I can do some of the single missions, but only with things like TMA on auto. The most frustrating thing is that I can't complete the first campaign mission with any platform. I find myself aimlessly zooming around with no real sense of progress because it's hard to tell if I'm actually doing things right. The game puts heavy emphasis on implying the situation is real, therefore clear and obvious objectives aren't given. I'm all for that, but the game relies on specific triggers like any other game, it doesn't "Know" what you're doing, it responds to specific actions being performed. For someone like me that limits creativity because I rarely know what the best (or required) plan of action is. The vast majority of the time I'm restlessly waiting and hoping for an objective confirmation that I may never get. "Find and identify all rebel activity" may sound simple enough for a vet or someone at least experience with naval surveillance but to me it feels like finding 10 different needles in a haystack and trying not to get seen by those needles at the same time. I guess what I'm wondering is if there are any mission walkthroughs for the first one and/or some of the single missions. Getting a general idea of the normal routine and what should or should not be done in most circumstances would probably help a lot. It's all fine having a tome full of great technical specs, but it's not really the technical stuff that's frustrating, it's the general heart of playing that isn't written in the manual. Another thing I seem to end up doing is working up a vast hairball of inaccurate tracks. I'd appreciate some tips on sensor management. Thanks.

10-27-07, 10:27 PM	#3
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	May or may not be up your street, but what I did when figuring out Sub Command (i.e. Dangerous Waters 1 if you like), was to create a mission in the editor with all kinds of ships surrounding me and set them all up so none of them were hostile to me, in order that I could practice detecting them without having to worry about being fired on or complete a mission or whatever. You can do this without setting the actual location of the ships you intend to practice on, as there is an option to have them spawn at a random location in an area you specify, so it can still be a challenge. The other thing this achieves, is to give you an idea of the kind of triggers there are in the sim, which is a good pointer for the kind of limits you can be on and what the enemy ships objectives can be. The mission editor in Dangerous Waters is very intuitive, so it will not take you long to set up such a mission for yourself. Chock __________________

10-28-07, 08:02 PM	#5
Reaper51 A-ganger Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 79 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	If you're having trouble managing the contacts, you also might consider setting up a scenario with only one ship. Then you could practice detection, and TMA, without the confusion of multiple contacts. Hope this helps.

10-29-07, 08:55 AM	#6
SquidB Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lytham UK Posts: 244 Downloads: 169 Uploads: 0	When i was starting out, the best adivice someone gave me was to look in the NB sonar for distant contacts (providing your in a sub of course). The manual doesnt make this clear. Molon Labes tutorial is an excellent way to get into the game, as it doesnt overload you and covers all the main points as to what you should be doing. The quick mission generator is another good way of learning. It tends to provide you with instant action and you can experiment with a number of different platforms. I could never really get into the offical campaign (i didnt like the storyline) however there are a wealth of user missions and campaigns for you to try out. Try ones with 1 or 2 star ratings to begin with.