resarch paper help

VonHammer · 10-25-07, 10:25 AM

ive got to do a research paper for my english class. we could choose any topic- mine is the WWII U.S. Submarine Service. i would like some info on sources. this would be greatly appreciated!

DeepIron · 10-25-07, 10:29 AM

I'd be happy to share my resources with you BUT only after you've listed the resources you have discovered on your own first...

mookiemookie · 10-25-07, 10:36 AM

Clay Blair's Silent Victory is generally accepted as the "bible" of the submarine war.

The Pampanito's website is also chock full of good sub info. They even have a copy of the "owner's manual" for a sub on it. http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm

Chock · 10-25-07, 11:13 AM

That's a very broad subject, and so you need to identify what 'take' you are going to put on things. If it is a history, then something which lists chronological events will be sufficient, however if you are intending to comment on something such as development or doctrine, you'll need to source specific documents and writings from policy makers.

As a starting point for a general overview, I would recommend The Encyclopedia of US Sumbarines, by Wilbur Cross and George W. Feise Jr. with James W. Blanchard (Capt. USN, retired) and Joseph T Talbert Jr (Capt. USN, retired) (ISBN number 0-8160-4460-0). This covers US subs fom their inception up to its print date of 2003, so it certainly covers your period of interest. However it's an expensive book (I bought it in the UK and it cost me 54 quid - ouch, which makes it well over 100 dollars US), so you might want to see if a library can get hold of it.

It lists pretty much every US sub, with a history of its service, plus other significant subjects and materiel, including some stuff on doctrine and tactics, although none of the info on doctrine is much more than a brief overview.

As you probably know, the US submarine service in WW2 started off badly, with many early skippers being replaced for 'being too timid' and their situation was not helped by the unreliability of the weaponry they had early on, or the condition of the boats, which was generally very poor in the early stages of the war, some famous sub skippers actually refused to leave port in boats assigned to them because of this, and a few others ended their careers because of this. This, coupled with the fact that the US boats were designed primarily for a 'fleet action' type of doctrine, rather than the solo patrols which became their accepted mode of operation, meant that there were many personality clashes over doctrine and this was compounded by there being no love lost between the two major sub pacs, one of which sorted out the problems with torpedoes quicker than the other, and so gained more success early on. This doesn't even begin to touch on Atlantic operations either, where there was also the issues and rivalries cropping up from more combined operations with other Allies.

So all of this info is probably best sought out by 'cherry picking' a few of the famous skippers and commander's autobiographies, although if you have any of the older US submarine simulations, such as Silent Service, you'll find that their manuals actually have quite a lot of info on this type of thing (god bless those manuals from the old days, it's why we miss them so).

There are one or two books on the overall operations of WW2, and it is probably worth seeking out one or two of those to get the 'outside view' of where sub operations fitted into the big picture. I can particularly recommend Victory in the Pacific: The fight for the Pacific Islands 1942-45 by Karen Farrington (ISBN 1-84193-335-X). Although it doesn't cover the European (Atlantic) aspects of US sub ops, it's a great book of its kind, with maps and great text explaining the involvement and actions of most arms of the US assault on Japan. Great for a good general understanding of the campaign.

I'll have a root on my bookshelf and see what else I can find to recommend, check back. Incidentally, it will help if you spell 'research paper' correctly at the top of your work. Yeah, I know it was a typo, couldn't resist!

:-) Chock

rrmelend · 10-25-07, 12:49 PM

The US submarine war against Japan was the topic of my thesis in college. Here is a partial list of some of the sources I used (not in any particualr order):
- Sink ‘Em All – Charles Lockwood
- Thunder Below!: The USS *Barb* Revolutionizes Submarine Warfare in World War
II - Eugene B. Fluckey
- Unrestricted Warfare: How a New Breed of Officers Led the Submarine Force to
Victory in World War II - James F DeRose
- The Silent Service in World War II: The Fleet Type Submarine -
www.periscopefilm.com
- U.S. Subs Down Under: Brisbane 1942-1945 - David Jones
- US Submarine Crewman 1941-1945 - Robert Hargis (not as bad as it looks)
- Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War against Japan - Clay Blair Jr.
- United States Submarine Operations in World War II - Theodore Roscoe
- Subs Against the Rising Sun: U.S. Submarines in the Pacific - Kieth M. Milton

I also used many of the actual patrol logs as well as personal stories from
officers and crewmembers.

ReallyDedPoet · 10-25-07, 12:51 PM

Check out my sig., it is a link to a nice Web Site

RDP

VonHammer · 10-25-07, 04:36 PM

i knew posting here would be better than using the library data bases. i did a google search and i ended up finding this site www.valoratsea.com and on there they got Admiral King's report http://www.valoratsea.com/King.htm

BTW, this is for college. its English 101.

DeepSix · 10-25-07, 09:12 PM

It depends on how broad or narrow the focus of your paper is going to be.

Blair's Silent Victory is pretty much the benchmark overview history. Best single source for a broad description of the sub service in World War II. Roscoe's U.S. Submarine Operations in World War II is also a good overall study, but it's older and (depending on your library) not quite as readily available. You can get it at Amazon (along with Blair), but I think it's only in hardcover and is not cheap. It is still well worth a read, though, especially if you're looking for something to compare and contrast with Blair. It's not that they take opposite points of view, but rather that they wrote in different eras with some differences in their perspectives as a result.

Another good authoritative history (of the Pacific war in general) is S.E. Morison's The Two-Ocean War. It is a summary of his 15-volume official history of the Navy in World War II. Morison is a little dated too, now, and of course he's not specifically focused on subs, but if you have the time to include it in your research, it's an excellent way to view the sub service within the context of "the rest of the war."

If you want techincal info on subs, The Fleet Type Submarine (see the link in remelend's post) is the only way to go, in my opinion. It's a primary resource, though, without any narration to guide the reader to a boiled-down, ready for an English paper conclusion. You could also use Norman Friedman's U.S. Submarines Through 1945 to get technical info, but I personally find it a very difficult read. It is extremely interesting material presented in a most uncompelling, cloying sort of way. But nevertheless full of good information and it might help you if you need clarification about things you find in Fleet Type.

Lastly, I think James F. Calvert's Silent Running is an excellent and readable personal account. I single out Calvert every time I recommend a sub book because I personally admire his ability to remain almost journalistic in his narrative - without second-guessing through the benefit of hindsight. Blair can get a little peppery at times, I think. Other than Calvert, I would not read too many personal accounts of the sub service. It's not that they aren't worth reading - they are - but for the purposes of a first year English paper I think you'd end up spending a lot of time reading them for relatively little unique information in return.

Anyway, bottom line - if I had to choose just 3 of these, they would be:

Blair, Clay Jr. Silent Victory
Morison, S.E. Two-Ocean War
Calvert, James F. Silent Running

And of course, the best source for info is here - Subsim! Think you could get away with citing it in the bibliography?

Best of luck with your paper!

Cheers,
Rob (former English major and current history geek)

[Edit - Forgot to mention one other book, Back from the Deep: The Strange Story of the Sister Subs Squalus and Sculpin, by Carl LaVO. In particular some of the early chapters deal with the training of enlisted men (whereas the other books I mentioned focus more on an officer's perspective). It's a quick read, too.]

VonHammer · 10-26-07, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepSix

And of course, the best source for info is here - Subsim! Think you could get away with citing it in the bibliography?

Best of luck with your paper!

Cheers,
Rob (former English major and current history geek)

thanks for that. i know now i will have more than the reqiuered 5 sources. i dont know if ill be able to getaway with lisiting Subsim in the bibliography. it has to be at least 1000 words, or 4 paragraphs.

VonHammer · 10-26-07, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepSix

And of course, the best source for info is here - Subsim! Think you could get away with citing it in the bibliography?

Best of luck with your paper!

Cheers,
Rob (former English major and current history geek)

Thanks for that. now when we go to the library, ill have some books to look up. idk if i could list Subsim as resource. but i will give it a shoutout. i was thinking about using this screenshot i took as a background for my cover page. and i will post a copy of the finished product on here.

mookiemookie · 10-26-07, 09:33 AM

That's a good pic....here's some other nice ones from the screenshot thread

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1278
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1239
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1191

cmdrk · 10-26-07, 10:25 AM

Here is one source that might be of interest.

Current Doctrine Submarines
Feb 1944
Vice Admiral C.A. Lockwood Jr.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...b_doctrine.htm

longam · 10-26-07, 11:40 AM

A good site for maps http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web...ar%20index.htm

VonHammer · 10-26-07, 12:00 PM

I dont know if ill use any maps. its limitied to 1000 words, or about 4 paragraphs. I still havent decided on what aspect i want to take. i was thinking of just giving a general overview of sub operations in the Pacific.

VonHammer · 10-27-07, 10:58 AM

and also i have yet to think of an awsome title to go with the pic.

10-25-07, 10:25 AM	#1
VonHammer Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 218 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	resarch paper help ive got to do a research paper for my english class. we could choose any topic- mine is the WWII U.S. Submarine Service. i would like some info on sources. this would be greatly appreciated!

10-25-07, 10:29 AM	#2
DeepIron Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Too far from the Pacific right now... Posts: 1,634 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'd be happy to share my resources with you BUT only after you've listed the resources you have discovered on your own first... __________________ RFB / RSRDC Beta Tester RFB / RSRDC Modding Forum: http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php RFB Top Post link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125529 RFB Loadout: RFB_V1.52_102408: RFB_V1.52_Patch_111608: RSRDC_RFBv15_V396 Last edited by DeepIron; 10-25-07 at 11:26 AM.

10-25-07, 10:36 AM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Clay Blair's Silent Victory is generally accepted as the "bible" of the submarine war. The Pampanito's website is also chock full of good sub info. They even have a copy of the "owner's manual" for a sub on it. http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

10-25-07, 11:13 AM	#4
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That's a very broad subject, and so you need to identify what 'take' you are going to put on things. If it is a history, then something which lists chronological events will be sufficient, however if you are intending to comment on something such as development or doctrine, you'll need to source specific documents and writings from policy makers. As a starting point for a general overview, I would recommend The Encyclopedia of US Sumbarines, by Wilbur Cross and George W. Feise Jr. with James W. Blanchard (Capt. USN, retired) and Joseph T Talbert Jr (Capt. USN, retired) (ISBN number 0-8160-4460-0). This covers US subs fom their inception up to its print date of 2003, so it certainly covers your period of interest. However it's an expensive book (I bought it in the UK and it cost me 54 quid - ouch, which makes it well over 100 dollars US), so you might want to see if a library can get hold of it. It lists pretty much every US sub, with a history of its service, plus other significant subjects and materiel, including some stuff on doctrine and tactics, although none of the info on doctrine is much more than a brief overview. As you probably know, the US submarine service in WW2 started off badly, with many early skippers being replaced for 'being too timid' and their situation was not helped by the unreliability of the weaponry they had early on, or the condition of the boats, which was generally very poor in the early stages of the war, some famous sub skippers actually refused to leave port in boats assigned to them because of this, and a few others ended their careers because of this. This, coupled with the fact that the US boats were designed primarily for a 'fleet action' type of doctrine, rather than the solo patrols which became their accepted mode of operation, meant that there were many personality clashes over doctrine and this was compounded by there being no love lost between the two major sub pacs, one of which sorted out the problems with torpedoes quicker than the other, and so gained more success early on. This doesn't even begin to touch on Atlantic operations either, where there was also the issues and rivalries cropping up from more combined operations with other Allies. So all of this info is probably best sought out by 'cherry picking' a few of the famous skippers and commander's autobiographies, although if you have any of the older US submarine simulations, such as Silent Service, you'll find that their manuals actually have quite a lot of info on this type of thing (god bless those manuals from the old days, it's why we miss them so). There are one or two books on the overall operations of WW2, and it is probably worth seeking out one or two of those to get the 'outside view' of where sub operations fitted into the big picture. I can particularly recommend Victory in the Pacific: The fight for the Pacific Islands 1942-45 by Karen Farrington (ISBN 1-84193-335-X). Although it doesn't cover the European (Atlantic) aspects of US sub ops, it's a great book of its kind, with maps and great text explaining the involvement and actions of most arms of the US assault on Japan. Great for a good general understanding of the campaign. I'll have a root on my bookshelf and see what else I can find to recommend, check back. Incidentally, it will help if you spell 'research paper' correctly at the top of your work. Yeah, I know it was a typo, couldn't resist! :-) Chock __________________ Last edited by Chock; 10-25-07 at 11:36 AM.

10-25-07, 12:51 PM	#6
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,886 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Check out my sig., it is a link to a nice Web Site RDP __________________ Back in the Day

10-25-07, 12:49 PM	#5
rrmelend Medic Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 162 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	The US submarine war against Japan was the topic of my thesis in college. Here is a partial list of some of the sources I used (not in any particualr order): - Sink ‘Em All – Charles Lockwood - Thunder Below!: The USS Barb Revolutionizes Submarine Warfare in World War II - Eugene B. Fluckey - Unrestricted Warfare: How a New Breed of Officers Led the Submarine Force to Victory in World War II - James F DeRose - The Silent Service in World War II: The Fleet Type Submarine - www.periscopefilm.com - U.S. Subs Down Under: Brisbane 1942-1945 - David Jones - US Submarine Crewman 1941-1945 - Robert Hargis (not as bad as it looks) - Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War against Japan - Clay Blair Jr. - United States Submarine Operations in World War II - Theodore Roscoe - Subs Against the Rising Sun: U.S. Submarines in the Pacific - Kieth M. Milton I also used many of the actual patrol logs as well as personal stories from officers and crewmembers.

10-25-07, 04:36 PM	#7
VonHammer Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 218 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i knew posting here would be better than using the library data bases. i did a google search and i ended up finding this site www.valoratsea.com and on there they got Admiral King's report http://www.valoratsea.com/King.htm BTW, this is for college. its English 101.

10-25-07, 09:12 PM	#8
DeepSix Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Music City Posts: 683 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	It depends on how broad or narrow the focus of your paper is going to be. Blair's Silent Victory is pretty much the benchmark overview history. Best single source for a broad description of the sub service in World War II. Roscoe's U.S. Submarine Operations in World War II is also a good overall study, but it's older and (depending on your library) not quite as readily available. You can get it at Amazon (along with Blair), but I think it's only in hardcover and is not cheap. It is still well worth a read, though, especially if you're looking for something to compare and contrast with Blair. It's not that they take opposite points of view, but rather that they wrote in different eras with some differences in their perspectives as a result. Another good authoritative history (of the Pacific war in general) is S.E. Morison's The Two-Ocean War. It is a summary of his 15-volume official history of the Navy in World War II. Morison is a little dated too, now, and of course he's not specifically focused on subs, but if you have the time to include it in your research, it's an excellent way to view the sub service within the context of "the rest of the war." If you want techincal info on subs, The Fleet Type Submarine (see the link in remelend's post) is the only way to go, in my opinion. It's a primary resource, though, without any narration to guide the reader to a boiled-down, ready for an English paper conclusion. You could also use Norman Friedman's U.S. Submarines Through 1945 to get technical info, but I personally find it a very difficult read. It is extremely interesting material presented in a most uncompelling, cloying sort of way. But nevertheless full of good information and it might help you if you need clarification about things you find in Fleet Type. Lastly, I think James F. Calvert's Silent Running is an excellent and readable personal account. I single out Calvert every time I recommend a sub book because I personally admire his ability to remain almost journalistic in his narrative - without second-guessing through the benefit of hindsight. Blair can get a little peppery at times, I think. Other than Calvert, I would not read too many personal accounts of the sub service. It's not that they aren't worth reading - they are - but for the purposes of a first year English paper I think you'd end up spending a lot of time reading them for relatively little unique information in return. Anyway, bottom line - if I had to choose just 3 of these, they would be: Blair, Clay Jr. Silent Victory Morison, S.E. Two-Ocean War Calvert, James F. Silent Running And of course, the best source for info is here - Subsim! Think you could get away with citing it in the bibliography? Best of luck with your paper! Cheers, Rob (former English major and current history geek) [Edit - Forgot to mention one other book, Back from the Deep: The Strange Story of the Sister Subs Squalus and Sculpin, by Carl LaVO. In particular some of the early chapters deal with the training of enlisted men (whereas the other books I mentioned focus more on an officer's perspective). It's a quick read, too.] __________________ Jack's happy days will soon be gone, To return again, oh never! For they've raised his pay five cents a day, But they've stopped his grog forever. For tonight we'll merry, merry be, For tonight we'll merry, merry be, For tonight we'll merry, merry be, But tomorrow we'll be sober. - "Farewell to Grog"

10-26-07, 09:33 AM	#11
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	That's a good pic....here's some other nice ones from the screenshot thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1278 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1239 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1191 __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

10-26-07, 10:25 AM	#12
cmdrk Planesman Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 184 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Here is one source that might be of interest. Current Doctrine Submarines Feb 1944 Vice Admiral C.A. Lockwood Jr. http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...b_doctrine.htm

10-26-07, 11:40 AM	#13
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	A good site for maps http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web...ar%20index.htm

10-26-07, 12:00 PM	#14
VonHammer Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 218 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I dont know if ill use any maps. its limitied to 1000 words, or about 4 paragraphs. I still havent decided on what aspect i want to take. i was thinking of just giving a general overview of sub operations in the Pacific. Last edited by VonHammer; 10-27-07 at 10:32 AM.

10-27-07, 10:58 AM	#15
VonHammer Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 218 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	and also i have yet to think of an awsome title to go with the pic.