Game or sim?

quitefrankly · 10-12-07, 06:11 AM

Hello. Is this meant to be a simulation or a game? If its a simulation, then I think I probably just bought the wrong thing. But if its a game, then I think I'm missing something, or doing something wrong. Anyway, this is what it seems like to me:

I get a mission, and its only ever one of about 3 or 4 things... Take a photo, deliver a spy/supplies, or patrol. So I set off from port, I go to the objective, I sink some ships, and then I return to base. And then its that all over again, again, and again?

Is that it? If that IS it, then thats ok... I'm not attacking the game or anything. Its a simulation and the depth is in the controlling of the sub and perfecting your attacks and stuff. But I was just hoping for it to be more of a game. Flight Simulator X I find boring. But something like Lock On, I really enjoy, because there are lots of missions and each one seems completely different, even although I am still doing pretty much the same thing.

But anyway, I'm about to uninstall this, so I thought I would ask incase I'm missing something and someone can maybe help. I just seem to be getting the same missions over and over, and its almost like a vague excuse to leave the port and blow up ships. I spent the first week figuring out how to play, but then its just sail to the deep ocean, blow up a bunch of ships, sail home, and repeat a million times. And I just don't really understand that. If thats all it is, then I can understand that its just a sim. But I would still find it odd that they didn't try to dress it up a bit nicer and add in some more missions or something.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Thanks.

p.s. I completed a campaign and its the least impressed I've ever been after completing a campaign in any game. And the only option left for me, was to just do it all over again in another campaign. I think I'm maybe more suited to flight sims?

leovampire · 10-12-07, 06:16 AM

and if you have enough Ammo left they will send you to do somthing else for a start. Send a status Report is what I meant for new orders.

When you find a convoy or task force send a contact report and you will get further order's or if the enemy intercept's it they may come after you then it is fun trying to attack when order to do so.

But it is both a Game and a Simulation of what US submarine war fair was like with the Jap's

stabiz · 10-12-07, 07:03 AM

I think you have to like the quit hours on the sea as much as the action to love subsims. Luckily I do.

AVGWarhawk · 10-12-07, 08:00 AM

Well, you can look at it both ways. Set realism setting very low and it seems more like a game. Start removing these settings and the game now becomes more sim like. Try 100% manual targeting and solution finding for the torpedoes. Very satisfying when the solution you came up with sinks a ship. This is when it really becomes a simulation and usually once you accomplish this, you get hooked with the simulation. Add your features of limited fuel, etc. I have always felt the sub/uboat sims need a bit of imagination on the players part. You stated that you patrol here and photo there. Basically this is what the submarines did. Go look at the mods and add new things to the game to make it more enjoyable for you. I add my own music for the gramaphone and listen to the wartime radio while playing (mods you can find on the mod forums). Through in Trigger Maru for tougher DD. Plenty to add and do if you let it!!!

seafarer · 10-12-07, 08:51 AM

There's also nothing that limits you to doing just what the orders say. Even if you get orders to go somewhere else, your route there is of your own choosing (fuel permitting of course). Once you've done that photo recon, or patroled your sector long enough to complete the mission requirements, go off and do what you like. Sail somewhere you've never been, try a sneak harbor attack on a port of your choice, read up on your history and go hunting for a big historical fleet (the Midway campaign, or an invasion fleet).

Personally, I like to go off on ludicrously distant voyages, just to see how far I can push my fuel (shortly after SHIII came out, I took my IXC to the Seychelles from Lorient, just because I could!).

The orders you receive are just the minimum required to successfully complete the patrol or misssion and continue your career - but beyond that, the ocean is yours! (well, until you get sunk and killed - the IJN have their own funny idea that the ocean is theirs, not yours)

SteamWake · 10-12-07, 09:17 AM

Its a simulation game :p

If it was a true simulation it would take you months to play a single mission. I dont think anyone wants to spend a month of real time to complete a mission. You have to mow the grass at some point.

FIREWALL · 10-12-07, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well, you can look at it both ways. Set realism setting very low and it seems more like a game. Start removing these settings and the game now becomes more sim like. Try 100% manual targeting and solution finding for the torpedoes. Very satisfying when the solution you came up with sinks a ship. This is when it really becomes a simulation and usually once you accomplish this, you get hooked with the simulation. Add your features of limited fuel, etc. I have always felt the sub/uboat sims need a bit of imagination on the players part. You stated that you patrol here and photo there. Basically this is what the submarines did. Go look at the mods and add new things to the game to make it more enjoyable for you. I add my own music for the gramaphone and listen to the wartime radio while playing (mods you can find on the mod forums). Through in Trigger Maru for tougher DD. Plenty to add and do if you let it!!!

Good Morning All

I agree with AVG This can be anyway you want it to be. The nice thing is the choice is yours. Your in Command.

ReallyDedPoet · 10-12-07, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well, you can look at it both ways. Set realism setting very low and it seems more like a game. Start removing these settings and the game now becomes more sim like. Try 100% manual targeting and solution finding for the torpedoes. Very satisfying when the solution you came up with sinks a ship. This is when it really becomes a simulation and usually once you accomplish this, you get hooked with the simulation. Add your features of limited fuel, etc. I have always felt the sub/uboat sims need a bit of imagination on the players part. You stated that you patrol here and photo there. Basically this is what the submarines did. Go look at the mods and add new things to the game to make it more enjoyable for you. I add my own music for the gramaphone and listen to the wartime radio while playing (mods you can find on the mod forums). Through in Trigger Maru for tougher DD. Plenty to add and do if you let it!!!

Yeah this

, nice post AVG. The game has broad appeal because of the settings and also the great mods available.

RDP

quitefrankly · 10-12-07, 01:52 PM

Thank you everyone, for the replies. Very kind. I think I understand it a bit better now.

the_belgian · 10-13-07, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quitefrankly

Hello. Is this meant to be a simulation or a game? If its a simulation, then I think I probably just bought the wrong thing. But if its a game, then I think I'm missing something, or doing something wrong. Anyway, this is what it seems like to me:

I get a mission, and its only ever one of about 3 or 4 things... Take a photo, deliver a spy/supplies, or patrol. So I set off from port, I go to the objective, I sink some ships, and then I return to base. And then its that all over again, again, and again?

Is that it? If that IS it, then thats ok... I'm not attacking the game or anything. Its a simulation and the depth is in the controlling of the sub and perfecting your attacks and stuff. But I was just hoping for it to be more of a game. Flight Simulator X I find boring. But something like Lock On, I really enjoy, because there are lots of missions and each one seems completely different, even although I am still doing pretty much the same thing.

But anyway, I'm about to uninstall this, so I thought I would ask incase I'm missing something and someone can maybe help. I just seem to be getting the same missions over and over, and its almost like a vague excuse to leave the port and blow up ships. I spent the first week figuring out how to play, but then its just sail to the deep ocean, blow up a bunch of ships, sail home, and repeat a million times. And I just don't really understand that. If thats all it is, then I can understand that its just a sim. But I would still find it odd that they didn't try to dress it up a bit nicer and add in some more missions or something.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Thanks.

p.s. I completed a campaign and its the least impressed I've ever been after completing a campaign in any game. And the only option left for me, was to just do it all over again in another campaign. I think I'm maybe more suited to flight sims?

for the moment i'm bored for +/- the same reasons...

Steeltrap · 10-14-07, 02:16 PM

Another thing to consider is that the USS Tang had the greatest rate of enemy sinkings per days on patrol - 1 ship sunk for every 11 days patrolled. That rate was more than DOUBLE the next best sub. So, if you were to equal the record of the best submarine in terms of sinkings per patrol days, you'd go 11 days per ship. Given time compression getting to/from Pearl and Midway, that still means it's not exactly a turkey shoot!

Best advice given is to go read some books. Wahoo and Clear the Bridge, both by Richard O'Kane (widely regarded as the best skipper), will give you a real idea of how things were. Unfortunately they also give you a real idea of the flaws in the sim, but that's another story!

More than anything, the sim/game requires PATIENCE! If you aren't the "spend hours stalking prey for the kill shot" type, chances are you're not going to enjoy it.

Good luck!

monkeymagoo · 10-15-07, 12:41 PM

I normally play shooters (half way through Bioshock) but I'm hooked on SH4. Seems a bit hardcore having to draw the angles etc etc on the map and stalking the enemy for ages just to get one kill but its soooo satisfying when you get one.

And for a bit of a quick fix you can always use the deck gun. The only way I could seem to shake off a subchaser was to surface at just the right time, knock a huge hole in the engine room with an armour piercing shell and then sneak away while he was burning - nice

the_belgian · 10-18-07, 04:00 PM

< After playing SH4 for months i got borred with it(something that never hapened with SH3!).
So i leave it on my HD and re-installed SH3.
It feld like a long lost son returning back home!
I think i'll be playing SH3 for another long time to come...
AS far i'm concerned "UBI;make SH5 happen on the atlantic front(maybe with a DC2 as counterpart

)

mrbeast · 10-18-07, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_belgian

< After playing SH4 for months i got borred with it(something that never hapened with SH3!).
So i leave it on my HD and re-installed SH3.
It feld like a long lost son returning back home!
I think i'll be playing SH3 for another long time to come...
AS far i'm concerned "UBI;make SH5 happen on the atlantic front(maybe with a DC2 as counterpart

)

Something that I'm getting bored of is SH3 players posting how boring SH4 is and how they just had to go back to SH3 again.

I love SH3 and SH4 but I don't jump into threads about SH3 just to say how bored I was with the out dated graphics and the weird angular crew in SH3 and so always play SH4 now.

Both games are great so I don't see why there has to be so much sniping by players of one about the other.

the_belgian · 10-19-07, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbeast

1) Something that I'm getting bored of is SH3 players posting how boring SH4 is and how they just had to go back to SH3 again.

2) I love SH3 and SH4 but I don't jump into threads about SH3 just to say how bored I was with the out dated graphics and the weird angular crew in SH3 and so always play SH4 now.

3) Both games are great so I don't see why there has to be so much sniping by players of one about the other.

1)I have been in the SH-series from the beginning and,although mainly graphical,SH4 is a great game i went back to SH3 and am not scared to share my vision to others(not in a way"I am not satisfied but can better leave in silence...").

2)The reason i leave is simple;tention.SH3 has allot more of it than SH4.But when those who change collors(US into German)keep silent here it feels to me as if you could not stand the critics on SH4!

3)Sniping?I'd call it an anouncement

And who knows,one day i'll be back...

10-12-07, 06:11 AM	#1
quitefrankly Seaman Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 41 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Game or sim? Hello. Is this meant to be a simulation or a game? If its a simulation, then I think I probably just bought the wrong thing. But if its a game, then I think I'm missing something, or doing something wrong. Anyway, this is what it seems like to me: I get a mission, and its only ever one of about 3 or 4 things... Take a photo, deliver a spy/supplies, or patrol. So I set off from port, I go to the objective, I sink some ships, and then I return to base. And then its that all over again, again, and again? Is that it? If that IS it, then thats ok... I'm not attacking the game or anything. Its a simulation and the depth is in the controlling of the sub and perfecting your attacks and stuff. But I was just hoping for it to be more of a game. Flight Simulator X I find boring. But something like Lock On, I really enjoy, because there are lots of missions and each one seems completely different, even although I am still doing pretty much the same thing. But anyway, I'm about to uninstall this, so I thought I would ask incase I'm missing something and someone can maybe help. I just seem to be getting the same missions over and over, and its almost like a vague excuse to leave the port and blow up ships. I spent the first week figuring out how to play, but then its just sail to the deep ocean, blow up a bunch of ships, sail home, and repeat a million times. And I just don't really understand that. If thats all it is, then I can understand that its just a sim. But I would still find it odd that they didn't try to dress it up a bit nicer and add in some more missions or something. Am I looking at this the wrong way? Thanks. p.s. I completed a campaign and its the least impressed I've ever been after completing a campaign in any game. And the only option left for me, was to just do it all over again in another campaign. I think I'm maybe more suited to flight sims?

10-12-07, 06:16 AM	#2
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	After you do a mission then send a radio message and if you have enough Ammo left they will send you to do somthing else for a start. Send a status Report is what I meant for new orders. When you find a convoy or task force send a contact report and you will get further order's or if the enemy intercept's it they may come after you then it is fun trying to attack when order to do so. But it is both a Game and a Simulation of what US submarine war fair was like with the Jap's __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

10-12-07, 07:03 AM	#3
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I think you have to like the quit hours on the sea as much as the action to love subsims. Luckily I do. __________________

10-12-07, 08:00 AM	#4
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,274 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Well, you can look at it both ways. Set realism setting very low and it seems more like a game. Start removing these settings and the game now becomes more sim like. Try 100% manual targeting and solution finding for the torpedoes. Very satisfying when the solution you came up with sinks a ship. This is when it really becomes a simulation and usually once you accomplish this, you get hooked with the simulation. Add your features of limited fuel, etc. I have always felt the sub/uboat sims need a bit of imagination on the players part. You stated that you patrol here and photo there. Basically this is what the submarines did. Go look at the mods and add new things to the game to make it more enjoyable for you. I add my own music for the gramaphone and listen to the wartime radio while playing (mods you can find on the mod forums). Through in Trigger Maru for tougher DD. Plenty to add and do if you let it!!! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

10-12-07, 08:51 AM	#5
seafarer Commodore Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 622 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	There's also nothing that limits you to doing just what the orders say. Even if you get orders to go somewhere else, your route there is of your own choosing (fuel permitting of course). Once you've done that photo recon, or patroled your sector long enough to complete the mission requirements, go off and do what you like. Sail somewhere you've never been, try a sneak harbor attack on a port of your choice, read up on your history and go hunting for a big historical fleet (the Midway campaign, or an invasion fleet). Personally, I like to go off on ludicrously distant voyages, just to see how far I can push my fuel (shortly after SHIII came out, I took my IXC to the Seychelles from Lorient, just because I could!). The orders you receive are just the minimum required to successfully complete the patrol or misssion and continue your career - but beyond that, the ocean is yours! (well, until you get sunk and killed - the IJN have their own funny idea that the ocean is theirs, not yours) __________________ My Father's ship, HMCS Waskesiu (K330), sank U257 on 02/24/1944 running SHIII-1.4 with GWX2.1 and SHIV-1.5 with TMO/RSRDC/PE3.3 under MS Vista Home Premium 32-bit SP1 ACER AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 400GB SATA HD Antec TruePower Trio 650watt PSU BFG GeForce 8800GT/OC 512MB VRAM, Samsung 216BW widescreen (1680x1050) LCD

10-12-07, 09:17 AM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Its a simulation game :p If it was a true simulation it would take you months to play a single mission. I dont think anyone wants to spend a month of real time to complete a mission. You have to mow the grass at some point.

10-12-07, 01:52 PM	#9
quitefrankly Seaman Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 41 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thank you everyone, for the replies. Very kind. I think I understand it a bit better now.

10-14-07, 02:16 PM	#11
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Another thing to consider is that the USS Tang had the greatest rate of enemy sinkings per days on patrol - 1 ship sunk for every 11 days patrolled. That rate was more than DOUBLE the next best sub. So, if you were to equal the record of the best submarine in terms of sinkings per patrol days, you'd go 11 days per ship. Given time compression getting to/from Pearl and Midway, that still means it's not exactly a turkey shoot! Best advice given is to go read some books. Wahoo and Clear the Bridge, both by Richard O'Kane (widely regarded as the best skipper), will give you a real idea of how things were. Unfortunately they also give you a real idea of the flaws in the sim, but that's another story! More than anything, the sim/game requires PATIENCE! If you aren't the "spend hours stalking prey for the kill shot" type, chances are you're not going to enjoy it. Good luck!

10-15-07, 12:41 PM	#12
monkeymagoo Seaman Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 35 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I normally play shooters (half way through Bioshock) but I'm hooked on SH4. Seems a bit hardcore having to draw the angles etc etc on the map and stalking the enemy for ages just to get one kill but its soooo satisfying when you get one. And for a bit of a quick fix you can always use the deck gun. The only way I could seem to shake off a subchaser was to surface at just the right time, knock a huge hole in the engine room with an armour piercing shell and then sneak away while he was burning - nice

10-18-07, 04:00 PM	#13
the_belgian Commander Join Date: May 2007 Location: a mile behind the sign"end of civilisation" Posts: 444 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	< After playing SH4 for months i got borred with it(something that never hapened with SH3!). So i leave it on my HD and re-installed SH3. It feld like a long lost son returning back home! I think i'll be playing SH3 for another long time to come... AS far i'm concerned "UBI;make SH5 happen on the atlantic front(maybe with a DC2 as counterpart )