[reg]depth damage increase

[Seth8530]

Helo, im playing triggir maru's and while i love it i think the depthcharges are way to week could someone please make a mod to fix this?

[tater]

LOL, and I just made a mod to make them mostly weaker.

I did decrease the depth error, so they'll get closer.

If you play in late 43 or beyond, they will be somewhat stronger, actually.

You might also try adding my TM Kaibokan mod, it adds some escorts with rather a lot of DCs aboard, and decent sensors into the bargain. Also late war.

BTW, even though the current mod I just released lowers the strength of the smaller DCs, I am actually very open to increasing the strength of the smaller ones, perhaps to stock level, and having the later war 162kg DCs be very much more lethal. From my reading, the USN considered similar weight (300lbs) DCs to be 100% kills if they detonated within ~6m (20 feet).

Actually, if there is some interest, I will make a test version of the recently released mod that does just that. Instead of saying that the stock DC = 162kg, I might say the stock SH4 DC = 110kg. The 162kg would then become very much more dangerous.

tater

[tater]

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/567IJN%2...d%20damage.rar

There is a version of my new mod with the stock DCs increased in damage, and the smaller early war versions increased to around the current stock level.

This means that early in the war, the DCs will be about what you experience in TM now, but later in the war, a hit inside 6m on an early fleet boat (sargo, salmon, porpoise) will be almost a 100% kill.

tater

[tater]

Interesting, a quick test with a 33% increased DC hit vs a tambor a couple meters from the hull, and I was very much still in the game. I think for a 6m sure kill to be realistic, heck, even a 3m sure kill, the DCs might need to be very very much more powerful.

tater

[leovampire]

Originally Posted by tater

Interesting, a quick test with a 33% increased DC hit vs a tambor a couple meters from the hull, and I was very much still in the game. I think for a 6m sure kill to be realistic, heck, even a 3m sure kill, the DCs might need to be very very much more powerful.

tater

And give him a chance to talk to you about it LMAO!! :rotfl:

Love your devotion but see what he was looking for.

[tater]

Heheh. He brushed on something that I was already thinking about, and even chatting about in another conversation with lurker.

I just did a bunch of testing. The stock DC has a min damage of 170 and a max of 240.

I just tested one with a min of 340, and a max of 500. I had them blow next to my sub, and while I took a lot of damage, it was not fatal!

Something is indeed screwy.

tater

[swdw]

Originally Posted by tater

Interesting, a quick test with a 33% increased DC hit vs a tambor a couple meters from the hull, and I was very much still in the game. I think for a 6m sure kill to be realistic, heck, even a 3m sure kill, the DCs might need to be very very much more powerful.

tater

Hi again, posted this in the 1.3 patch and Japanese ASW topic, then saw this thread:

from http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAthree.htm
by Cpt Brayton Harris USN (ret)

1940
U. S. Navy ran depth-charge tests against an operational submarine (for most of the test, moored underwater without crew). They found that 300 pounds of TNT was not very
effective; the explosive charge was doubled to 600 pounds.

(later dropped to 400, when they added a lead weight for faster sinking)

I do think you are correct in the navy thinking along those lines prior to 1940 and that line of thinking may have been derived from the DC tests on the USS G-1 in 1921.

[tater]

The effective radius of the percussive wave depends upon the structural strength of the attacked vessel, and no definite values can be stated. Approximate information indicates that a 600-pound charge may cause moderate damage at 80 feet, but to be fatal it must explode within about 30 feet. The 300-pound charge may prove fatal within 20 feet. It is to be noted that doubling the weight of charge does not double the effective radius.

The larger IJN Type 2 was 162kg warhead (356.4 lbs).

The above quote says the DC may be lethal at ~20' (6.1m). It also says moderate damage on a much bigger warhead (600lbs) out to 80' (24m). The stock 40m is clearly too far, but it's not as far off as I had imagined. Of course I bet the damage as a function of distance is non-linear in RL. No idea if the game treats it as a linear gradient.

At the min SH4 explosion radius, 100% damage is applied, and to hitpoints as well I believe. So the stock setting of ~4m is not too bad, really. Setting the max radius too low (as I have been testing) is probably too far in the other directions. Looks like the TM value is pretty reasonable.

A quote about British air dropped depth bombs:

In the spring of 1942, a 250-pound depth charge increased effectiveness by 40%. The lethal range to penetrate a U-Boat was an explosion within about nineteen feet (5.8m—tater) of the U-boat.

Another quote I saw says 40 feet.

Another:

At the depth charge's minimum depth setting of 30 feet, the boats had to travel top speed to avoid damage from the blast. They also had to be dropped at least 50 feet apart to avoid setting each other off. The depth charges were only mounted when on patrol. No sense in having a 300lb target of high explosive on deck if not needed. Depending on the area of operation and main targets, many images of PT boats in action show that the racks were commonly removed. Mainly used against submarines, depth charges had to explode fairly close to the sub to be effective. This called for great expertise since, unlike ships and airplanes, the target was unseen (except for slight traces if you were lucky) and the depth vector also had to be considered. It was almost like firing the 20mm at a Zero at night during a lightning storm with bullets that only worked if you had set the right distance to the target. Here is the Navy's estimate of distance from the sub's hull / damage for this type of depth charge:

150-90 feet / Negligible
90-50 feet / Perhaps some (15m to 27m)
50-30 feet / Moderate (9m to 15m)
30-10 feet / Probably fatal (3m to 9m)