POTENTIAL SPOILER: Anti-Destroyer Tactics

Trygvasson · 09-21-07, 05:06 PM

I had lots of fun figuring these tactics out, and I'm sure others have made similar discoveries. Reading on is a bit of a spoiler though, since it exposes predictable patterns of destroyer behaviour. I've only tried this out in 1939-1941, if someone can confirm that this will not work against late war destroyers I would be very interested in hearing this!

MANEUVERING COUNTERATTACK
1. When an escort or patrolling destroyer is spotted, go to periscope depth and flank speed straight at him. Even the most deaf, green destroyer crew will hear this, and will charge you.

2. As the destroyer approaches, determine the type of destroyer. Set your T1 torpedo to magnetic(someone please tell me the T1 didn't have magnetic triggers) at 1 meter below keel depth of destroyer, or a bit deeper in heavy seas.

3. a) Some destroyers will keep going straight at you; kill them with a shot down the throat at 500 meters. The destroyer will see the torpedo's steam wake and try to evade, but your eel is making 44 knots and has just over 300m to run.
b) At a given point the destroyer starts zig-zagging towards your position, making a shot down the throat very hard to effect. Once she starts zig-zagging, hit F6 and manually set target speed to 12 knots - the max speed a destroyer can go and still use his ASDIC. Manually set target range to 350m. Keep going at flank speed, and when the destroyer is getting below 1000m, make a hard turn to starboard or port, depending on how the destroyer is coming at you; your goal is to achieve a 90 degree angle as the destroyer passes over you. Rudder amidships as she passes; she should just miss your conning tower and start lobbing depth charges, but since you're at flank speed you should be able to get away clean. KEEP TURNING in the direction you started your evading turn, set AOB to the appropriate 90-degree starboard or port, raise your scope, lock on the destroyer, flood tube 1 and fire when you have less than 15 degree gyro angle. In a type VII, you'll actually be able to get a firing solution before the destroyer has managed to get to 90 degree AOB; simply adjust this manually via the notebook or follow him round until he's at 90 degrees. Fire away.

Takes a bit of practice, but at 350 meters, a destroyer going 12 knots is a big, easy target, and she'll sink with that one torp, every goddamn time. And if you miss with the first one, you have three more, and since you're not hiding you can keep reloading, and repair any damage you incur from a lucky depth charge hit. But once you get good at this, they only get one chance to hit you before they sink, and after those three, four, five or even eight escorts are sunk, sinking the rest of the convoy is like killing baby seals. Wolves like baby seals.

For these tactics I prefer using my observation scope in the final phase, due to the very distances involved and the risk of damage. As always, keeping scope use to a minimum is an absolute must. I've found that keeping my scope in or even slightly below the waterline will give me just enough tactical awareness, while making it very hard for the destroyer crews to take potshots at my scope.

************************************************** ******

AMBUSH
Upon sighting an escorted convoy, wait for night and approach the rear corner of the convoy. There should be an escort somewhere nearby; locate her approximate station, and then distance yourself to her flank, at her extreme hydrophone range. Go to periscope depth and flank speed, she'll pick you up from afar. Keep your scope trained on her till you see her coming for you; as she does, go to silent running and max depth, sneak away before she gets to your last known location. Since you have now maximized the distance you can be picked up by hydrophones, chances are you'll have the time to get away clean. She should start plastering your last known location with DC's. When you have moved far away enough to surface without being seen, do so and go to flank speed and head for the convoy. Take up her station relative to the convoy while she looks for you, and she'll come for you in a straight line once she tires of looking for you in the rear of the convoy. This should enable you to obtain a very good firing solution. Repeat the procedure until all escorts are sunk, then - and only then - let loose on the freighters.

Letum · 09-21-07, 05:10 PM

or you could use stealth....

Trygvasson · 09-21-07, 05:17 PM

Stealth is only one weapon of the U-boat, it's not the only one. And if every U-boat had taken out just one destroyer, it would have been more than enough to tip the scales of the U-boat war. This is an example of patrol result using the tactics described, on 100% diff GWX.

16 Jul 19401005Patrol 9
U-49, 2nd Flotilla
Left at: July 16, 1940, 10:05
From: Lorient20 Jul 1940
0101BF 18Ship sunk! S.S. Tahchee (Tramp Steamer), 1838 tons
2142BF 17Ship sunk! HMS Heythrop (Hunt II class), 1150 tons
2205BF 17Ship sunk! HMS Janus (J&K classes), 1690 tons
2216BF 17Ship sunk! HMS Saxifrage (Flower class), 950 tons
2347BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Ville de Rouen (Medium Cargo), 4146 tons
21 Jul 1940
0005BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Tiiu (Large Merchant), 11054 tons
0016BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Godfrey B. Holt (Medium Cargo), 4145 tons
0020BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Sea Cardinal (Large Cargo), 8491 tons
0029BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Navasota (Large Tanker), 13716 tons
0032BF 17Ship sunk! Great Lakes Freighter, 1841 tons
0038BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Mission San Lorenzo (Tramp Steamer), 1839 tons
0052BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Cacapon (Large Tanker), 13715 tons
0103BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Beaconstreet (Large Cargo), 8490 tons
0105BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Kingswood (Tramp Steamer), 1840 tons
0115BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. President Sergent (Small Merchant), 2216 tons
0123BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Koll (Small Merchant), 2224 tons
0125BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Lone Jack (Small Merchant), 2223 tons
01 Aug 1940
0001Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 17
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonage: 81568 tons

andylegate · 09-21-07, 06:00 PM

The above tactic you describe above, I have used many times myself, with the difference that I set my torp's depth to 2.5 meters, and I wait to fire until it's sitting at 450 meters or less. The reason for that last one, is that I've had many a Flower Corvette avoid the torpeod just fine as they are very agile and can suddenly accelerate to an amazing speed. If I cut my fish loose at 400 to 450 meters, then even they can't dodge it.

I normally end up having to take just about all the escorts out of any convoy since the start of 1941. There always seems to be about 5 of them (Black Swans lately with an "S" class sub to boot too!).

Stealth is good. Stealth is great. Stealth seemed to go out the window the moment I got my type IXB boat!!!!

For some reason I seemed to have an easier time being sneaky in my type VII's then this one. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or the skimmers are learning better!

Trygvasson · 09-21-07, 06:05 PM

At 2,5 meters are you sure your torp will explode against a V&W class destroyer for example? Their draft is 4,7 IIRC, are you using magnetic or impact?

Did you ever encounter an S-class sub doing escort work? All I've seen from them is they paddle along in formation with the convoy. A sorry way to treat a good sub...

andylegate · 09-21-07, 06:11 PM

I use magnetics (but that's because I'm not using "historical torpedos"

)
And they work just fine against a V & W.

The "S" class actually does not line up with the convoy lines, and seems to be acting like an escort. She will definately open up with her deck guns if she spots you on the surface, and I have had them chase me, pinging away.

NiclDoe · 09-21-07, 08:42 PM

Or Use Mohr's idea and battle it with the Deck gun with two second reload.

mowgli99 · 09-21-07, 10:53 PM

Today i was going up the american coast. No merchants but lots of DD sightings. I killed each one with a stern tube becasue they have no clue how to find you. I was surfaced and if i was in british waters i would have been spotted but here you can shoot and get away easily. Ended with 1 fletcher sunk and 4 clemsons sunk (i have to use some bow tubes.). Random i know, but if you want to sink dds then go to america.

Hornet · 09-22-07, 02:43 PM

Good tactics guys, these all work very well.

Sailor Steve · 09-22-07, 05:02 PM

Head-on attack tactics are fine for a game, but I like to pretend I can really die doing this.

I'll keep hiding, thank you.

09-21-07, 05:06 PM	#1
Trygvasson Seaman Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 38 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	POTENTIAL SPOILER: Anti-Destroyer Tactics I had lots of fun figuring these tactics out, and I'm sure others have made similar discoveries. Reading on is a bit of a spoiler though, since it exposes predictable patterns of destroyer behaviour. I've only tried this out in 1939-1941, if someone can confirm that this will not work against late war destroyers I would be very interested in hearing this! MANEUVERING COUNTERATTACK 1. When an escort or patrolling destroyer is spotted, go to periscope depth and flank speed straight at him. Even the most deaf, green destroyer crew will hear this, and will charge you. 2. As the destroyer approaches, determine the type of destroyer. Set your T1 torpedo to magnetic(someone please tell me the T1 didn't have magnetic triggers) at 1 meter below keel depth of destroyer, or a bit deeper in heavy seas. 3. a) Some destroyers will keep going straight at you; kill them with a shot down the throat at 500 meters. The destroyer will see the torpedo's steam wake and try to evade, but your eel is making 44 knots and has just over 300m to run. b) At a given point the destroyer starts zig-zagging towards your position, making a shot down the throat very hard to effect. Once she starts zig-zagging, hit F6 and manually set target speed to 12 knots - the max speed a destroyer can go and still use his ASDIC. Manually set target range to 350m. Keep going at flank speed, and when the destroyer is getting below 1000m, make a hard turn to starboard or port, depending on how the destroyer is coming at you; your goal is to achieve a 90 degree angle as the destroyer passes over you. Rudder amidships as she passes; she should just miss your conning tower and start lobbing depth charges, but since you're at flank speed you should be able to get away clean. KEEP TURNING in the direction you started your evading turn, set AOB to the appropriate 90-degree starboard or port, raise your scope, lock on the destroyer, flood tube 1 and fire when you have less than 15 degree gyro angle. In a type VII, you'll actually be able to get a firing solution before the destroyer has managed to get to 90 degree AOB; simply adjust this manually via the notebook or follow him round until he's at 90 degrees. Fire away. Takes a bit of practice, but at 350 meters, a destroyer going 12 knots is a big, easy target, and she'll sink with that one torp, every goddamn time. And if you miss with the first one, you have three more, and since you're not hiding you can keep reloading, and repair any damage you incur from a lucky depth charge hit. But once you get good at this, they only get one chance to hit you before they sink, and after those three, four, five or even eight escorts are sunk, sinking the rest of the convoy is like killing baby seals. Wolves like baby seals. For these tactics I prefer using my observation scope in the final phase, due to the very distances involved and the risk of damage. As always, keeping scope use to a minimum is an absolute must. I've found that keeping my scope in or even slightly below the waterline will give me just enough tactical awareness, while making it very hard for the destroyer crews to take potshots at my scope. ************************************************ **** AMBUSH Upon sighting an escorted convoy, wait for night and approach the rear corner of the convoy. There should be an escort somewhere nearby; locate her approximate station, and then distance yourself to her flank, at her extreme hydrophone range. Go to periscope depth and flank speed, she'll pick you up from afar. Keep your scope trained on her till you see her coming for you; as she does, go to silent running and max depth, sneak away before she gets to your last known location. Since you have now maximized the distance you can be picked up by hydrophones, chances are you'll have the time to get away clean. She should start plastering your last known location with DC's. When you have moved far away enough to surface without being seen, do so and go to flank speed and head for the convoy. Take up her station relative to the convoy while she looks for you, and she'll come for you in a straight line once she tires of looking for you in the rear of the convoy. This should enable you to obtain a very good firing solution. Repeat the procedure until all escorts are sunk, then - and only then - let loose on the freighters.

09-21-07, 05:10 PM	#2
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	or you could use stealth.... __________________

09-21-07, 06:00 PM	#4
andylegate Medic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SC, USA Posts: 168 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The above tactic you describe above, I have used many times myself, with the difference that I set my torp's depth to 2.5 meters, and I wait to fire until it's sitting at 450 meters or less. The reason for that last one, is that I've had many a Flower Corvette avoid the torpeod just fine as they are very agile and can suddenly accelerate to an amazing speed. If I cut my fish loose at 400 to 450 meters, then even they can't dodge it. I normally end up having to take just about all the escorts out of any convoy since the start of 1941. There always seems to be about 5 of them (Black Swans lately with an "S" class sub to boot too!). Stealth is good. Stealth is great. Stealth seemed to go out the window the moment I got my type IXB boat!!!! For some reason I seemed to have an easier time being sneaky in my type VII's then this one. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or the skimmers are learning better! __________________ My Real Life Navy Brag Page Below http://www1.freewebs.com/andylegate/

09-21-07, 06:11 PM	#6
andylegate Medic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SC, USA Posts: 168 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I use magnetics (but that's because I'm not using "historical torpedos" ) And they work just fine against a V & W. The "S" class actually does not line up with the convoy lines, and seems to be acting like an escort. She will definately open up with her deck guns if she spots you on the surface, and I have had them chase me, pinging away. __________________ My Real Life Navy Brag Page Below http://www1.freewebs.com/andylegate/

09-21-07, 08:42 PM	#7
NiclDoe Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In the Air or hiding from Black Swans Posts: 760 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Or Use Mohr's idea and battle it with the Deck gun with two second reload. __________________ The Crazy Wolf

09-21-07, 05:17 PM	#3
Trygvasson Seaman Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 38 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Stealth is only one weapon of the U-boat, it's not the only one. And if every U-boat had taken out just one destroyer, it would have been more than enough to tip the scales of the U-boat war. This is an example of patrol result using the tactics described, on 100% diff GWX. 16 Jul 19401005Patrol 9 U-49, 2nd Flotilla Left at: July 16, 1940, 10:05 From: Lorient20 Jul 1940 0101BF 18Ship sunk! S.S. Tahchee (Tramp Steamer), 1838 tons 2142BF 17Ship sunk! HMS Heythrop (Hunt II class), 1150 tons 2205BF 17Ship sunk! HMS Janus (J&K classes), 1690 tons 2216BF 17Ship sunk! HMS Saxifrage (Flower class), 950 tons 2347BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Ville de Rouen (Medium Cargo), 4146 tons 21 Jul 1940 0005BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Tiiu (Large Merchant), 11054 tons 0016BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Godfrey B. Holt (Medium Cargo), 4145 tons 0020BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Sea Cardinal (Large Cargo), 8491 tons 0029BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Navasota (Large Tanker), 13716 tons 0032BF 17Ship sunk! Great Lakes Freighter, 1841 tons 0038BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Mission San Lorenzo (Tramp Steamer), 1839 tons 0052BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Cacapon (Large Tanker), 13715 tons 0103BF 17Ship sunk! M/V Beaconstreet (Large Cargo), 8490 tons 0105BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Kingswood (Tramp Steamer), 1840 tons 0115BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. President Sergent (Small Merchant), 2216 tons 0123BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Koll (Small Merchant), 2224 tons 0125BF 17Ship sunk! S.S. Lone Jack (Small Merchant), 2223 tons 01 Aug 1940 0001Patrol results Crew losses: 0 Ships sunk: 17 Aircraft destroyed: 0 Patrol tonage: 81568 tons

09-21-07, 06:05 PM	#5
Trygvasson Seaman Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 38 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	At 2,5 meters are you sure your torp will explode against a V&W class destroyer for example? Their draft is 4,7 IIRC, are you using magnetic or impact? Did you ever encounter an S-class sub doing escort work? All I've seen from them is they paddle along in formation with the convoy. A sorry way to treat a good sub...

09-21-07, 10:53 PM	#8
mowgli99 Engineer Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 215 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Today i was going up the american coast. No merchants but lots of DD sightings. I killed each one with a stern tube becasue they have no clue how to find you. I was surfaced and if i was in british waters i would have been spotted but here you can shoot and get away easily. Ended with 1 fletcher sunk and 4 clemsons sunk (i have to use some bow tubes.). Random i know, but if you want to sink dds then go to america.

09-22-07, 02:43 PM	#9
Hornet Watch Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Good tactics guys, these all work very well.

09-22-07, 05:02 PM	#10
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Head-on attack tactics are fine for a game, but I like to pretend I can really die doing this. I'll keep hiding, thank you. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo