Realism or fluke?

[ciphrix]

So there I was on my luxuary cruise of the Pacific, compliments of the american taxpayers, hitting a few golf balls and knocking back a couple of cold ones, when Bob my sonar guy said there was a whole bunch of ships coming my way. Thinking that a big ugly Japanese battleship would ruin the view, and to contribute to this war effort thing everyone keeps talking about, I'll throw a few torps in their general direction.

So I moved around a bit and lined up my shots, making sure none of the escorting destroyers or any other ship would block my shots, I fired off 4 torps at the Kongo BB. Naturally one of my Made In China torps detonated not 50 meters from the tube, alerting everyone and their mothers within a 10nm of my location, but more importantly spilling my Latte Macchiato...anyhoo 4-1=3 (I went to college), and 3 should be enough. BUT to my surprise, the port escort DD picked up speed but instead of coming for me, ran right into the path of 2 of my torps...so like what gives? Did he know that my torps was on target and sacrificed itself to save the BB? I heard during the war thats what DD escorts were supposed to do as a last resort (well obviously as a last resort as I doubt they'd do it for sh!ts and giggles)

So was it just a fluke or did that DD meant to do that?

And whats with torps exploding early? Even when set to Contact only? And does the paint contain any lead?

[Rockin Robbins]

Ya, it's top secret, but the paint is lead based so in case of a dud the Nips are poisoned when they repair their ship. Yer sworn to secrecy.

[switch.dota]

I'll do my best to answer your questions. First of a straight answer: the DD didn't INTEND to catch your torpedoes.

Now, onto some details.

First of, the Contact / Contact-influence switch in-game does NOT work. I.e. it does absolutely nothing, no matter how many times you flip it. Torpedoes fired prior to mid 1943 use magnetic detonation while those fired after mid 1943 use contact detonation.

Second, every torpedo has a certain %age chance to detonate at some point along it's run (run = from sub out to max possible range). The chance increases GREATLY in heavy seas (15m/s makes shots from long range almost impossible).

Third of, the paint probably does not contain lead, otherwise UBISoft might be fined and SH 4 forbidden by environmentalists!


Back to more serious matters, the DD behaiviour you noticed is a result of you being unlucky. DDs, particularly the ones at the 'tip' of the escort screen will sometimes break formation for some long range patrolling around the convoy/TF. They usually flank away when doing that. You simply fired the torpedoes at the wrong moment The AI doesn't acknowledge neither torpedo wakes nor prematurely-detonated torpedoes (i.e. it doesn't see and/or react to them).

You did, however, make a fatal mistake during the attack: you did not account for keel depths. A Kongo has a very deep keel compared to a destroyer, so setting the torpedoes 3m (9feet) deeper than the DD's keel would've given you a pretty good chance for the torps to slip right underneath the DD without detonating.


Hope this shades some light on the situation!

[CanadianSilentHunter]

Military Doctrine states that even today, smaller ships should sacrifice thier ship in order to save the flagship/flagships of the fleet. This happend as far back as the sailing ships that found the new land, when pirates were a reality. In the north atlantic, a Merchant marine carrying fuel or ammunition was place on the inside of the convoy. The better chance of a merchant marine carrying uniforms would get sunk by a U-Boat then the more precious cargo. There are many circumstances in the war where that occured on both sides.

As for the early detonation, yes, even on contact only they did explode 50 ft from the boat, but more often it was because of what needed to be done to make the torpedo contact only, wasn't done properly, to the point where they got lucky it didn't blow up in the tube ( which did happen ).

Everything was painted in lead paint back then, nobody knew any different.

[switch.dota]

The paint in SH4 MUST be lead-free or I'm retunring the box! :rotfl:

[captiandon]

I had one detonate so close to my boat that It rocked my boat really hard. I had injuries and some dammage as a resoult of it. It almost caused my boat to surface in the middle of a Japanese invasion fleet that was attackiing Luzon. The dammage was enough that I had to break off my attack and head away to make repairs and tend to injured crew. Needless to say I got sunk when I caught up with that fleet again so I had to restart my campaign. I now have the USS Seadragon and have had alot better luck with the Torpedos. I think alot of the duds have to do with your crew being Green. I focused on getting a better Torpedo crew with the Seadragon and have had fewer duds and no premature detonations as a resoult. I am still set at 100% Realism.

[ciphrix]

Originally Posted by switch.dota

First of, the Contact / Contact-influence switch in-game does NOT work. I.e. it does absolutely nothing, no matter how many times you flip it. Torpedoes fired prior to mid 1943 use magnetic detonation while those fired after mid 1943 use contact detonation.

The AI doesn't acknowledge neither torpedo wakes nor prematurely-detonated torpedoes (i.e. it doesn't see and/or react to them).

You did, however, make a fatal mistake during the attack: you did not account for keel depths. A Kongo has a very deep keel compared to a destroyer, so setting the torpedoes 3m (9feet) deeper than the DD's keel would've given you a pretty good chance for the torps to slip right underneath the DD without detonating.

Ah ok, but I was wondering

The Torp setting for contact vs contact/influence having no effect, is that a bug in the game or is that historically accurate?

The AI dosnt notice a premature detonation? or Torp wakes? for such a good game, this seems like kind of a big oversight by the developers?

Yeah, usually if I see that there is a chance another ship would block my torps, I set them to run deeper and try and get them under the first ship, however in this case when I was lining up my shot, there didnt seem to be a risk of that. And apparently the torps always tend to run deeper then the depth u set (or so I was told), so I try not play around with the setting if I can.

[switch.dota]

SH 4 is what it is thanks to pressure from the fans (for patch 1.3) and a LOT of work from dedicated submariners (aka the modding crew) that released a ton of coold modifications.

The C/C+I switch isn't working because of a design shortsight. There was no such switch in WW2. Some captains did order the magnetics disabled, but they risked being court martialed for it. Anyhow in SIlent Hunter 4, the presence of that dial suggests it was an intended feature. One that the devs never got around to implementing. Same goes for a lot of other issues (liek the AI not 'seeing' torpedo wakes). You can thank the money-hungry bastards at UBISoft and their strict deadlines for that.

[aanker]

Originally Posted by ciphrix

The Torp setting for contact vs contact/influence having no effect, is that a bug in the game or is that historically accurate?

From what I've learned it is historically accurate..... The Mark VI magnetic influence exploder didn't work and in June 43 it was officially deactivated and orders were given for contact hits on the MOT.

Art

PS: the Devs did a great job with SH4 ... Thanks! ... just please add Truk Lagoon w/1.4 ... Tater's improved campaign layers are great but the real Truk would be the icing on the cake ;-)

[JALU3]

So there I was, fresh out of Perth, not 2 weeks out at 8 knots . . . when to my suprise comes a pip on my radar screen (AUG '42) . . . so I manuever into it's path, well outside its visual range, line myself up, go to periscope depth and raise the scope . . . there is my target, a large composite freighter all by itself in the middle of the Bango Sea . . . so what is a well reasoning skipper to do but to take a shot. So there it is 1400 meters at zero angle . . . I take two shots spaced 10 seconds apart . . . then all of a sudden not 15 seconds later *BOOM* . . . my con and forward torpedo bay start flooding and I make like a cheap whore . . . head goes down, ass goes up and I find myself sinking uncontrollably even with emergency blow making a one way trip to davy jones locker.

thankfully my second torpedo was a lucky shot and while I am sinking to my inevitable demise the frieghter comes down with me . . . not a good night in the Bango Sea.

Thankfully I saved, but hopefully it's not a specific torpedo or I am going to be in a world full of repeats.

[Trickyfish]

Originally Posted by JALU3

Thankfully I saved, but hopefully it's not a specific torpedo or I am going to be in a world full of repeats.

That sounds like the dreaded "circular run". I'm assuming the game includes those because I may have experienced one on the first torpedo I ever fired.
I was in the second sub school training, for AA and deck guns. Since I was in a hurry to get to torpedo shooting I decided to fire a torpedo at the target rather than continue to pund it with my deck gun. I lined up on the surface at a dead stop, and fired one fish from the forward tubes. Several seconds later there was a tremendous explosion and damage reports came pouring in (along with half the ocean) from the rear compartments. When I went to the outside camera there was an enormous hole in the after torpedo room.
Luckily we didn't ship enough water that the damage control teams couldn't stay ahead of it.

All I can say is it was a pretty rough introduction to shooting torpedoes!

Trickyfish

[Seaman_Hornsby]

Originally Posted by Trickyfish

That sounds like the dreaded "circular run". I'm assuming the game includes those because I may have experienced one on the first torpedo I ever fired.Trickyfish

Welcome aboard, Trickyfish! You are correct, the game does indeed model circular run torpedoes. Of course, the damage done by them in game is a bit tame compared to that experienced by real life crews who were victimized by those deadly fish.

[Trickyfish]

Originally Posted by Seaman_Hornsby

Welcome aboard, Trickyfish! You are correct, the game does indeed model circular run torpedoes. Of course, the damage done by them in game is a bit tame compared to that experienced by real life crews who were victimized by those deadly fish.

In fact, I only pieced together what had happened to me after I read about the fate of Tang in The Bravest Man.

[-Pv-]

I carefully track my fish so I can go evasive at the slightest hint of a problem.
Sometimes I can get out of the way.
-Pv-

[Trickyfish]

Originally Posted by -Pv-

I carefully track my fish so I can go evasive at the slightest hint of a problem.
Sometimes I can get out of the way.
-Pv-

Is there a way to have the sound man do this? From what I've read it sounds like he would be the one to check the runs and give the report of "hot, straight, and normal!" to the skipper. Or do I need to do this manually?