To the British guys in the forum...

[mic1184]

hey, i - as a german - just wanted to say sorry for all that stuff! you know, sinking your ships and the like. I hope you dont hate us anymore (like the french). ;-)

okay, seriously, i was just thinking about that kinda stuff, how you feel as a british playing SH3.

in all other WW2 games that i've been playing (call of duty, medal of honor, company of heroes, etc) the player's role was always the allies side, because they were the "good boys" in the war. i didnt have the feeling i was playing against my home country, as no german would identify her- or himself with the third reich (well, no one reasonable at least, but thats another subject).

i've been playing SH3 for quite a long time now (nearly a year) and today was the FIRST time i thought something was weird. only today (installing Racerboy's flag-and-pennants-mod, seeing the kriegsflagge with the swastica on it) i realised that its the only game in which you solitarily play on the fascist side. i can imagine that this could be a bit weird for esp. you British, isnt it?

maybe i just have a weird day. greetz mic

[ReallyDedPoet]

This topic has been discussed in the past here. As a Canadian ( and under British authority in WWII ) , this country was heavily involved in WWII Atlantic Theatre via the RCN, we played a big role in the Battle of the Atlantic, and I am certainly proud of this countries' contribution.

That being said, SH3 is just a game in the end for me, thus I have no problem being in the SH3 Kriegsmarine.


RDP

[joea]

Yup, no problem playing SH3 or any other game from the Axis side for this Greek-Canadian. For example, I can play games involving the invasion of Crete from the Axis side as well, it's interesting, fun and educational.

[3Jane]

It's a very involved question, and I am not sure I have ever reached a solution which addresses it fully. Oddly enough it feels less uncomfortable playing the roll of a German vessel than it would be if the submarine were a russian one of the same period. I doubt I would if that were that case.

[STEED]

WW2 ended over 60 years ago and is now part of our history and I don't hold anything against the Germans and anyway they fell under the control of a evil party which ended in May 1945. As for the game it's just a game thats all and if anyone who have trouble separating fact from fiction well that's between you and what ever. SH3 is a game which is fun and yet many people have sat down and thought they wanted to learn about the real events of WW2 so thats not a bad idea if the game keeps an interest in history alive.

[Vacillator]

Although I'm British, I've always had a greater interest in the weapons and activities of the German armed forces in WW2 than those of any other nation. Don't ask me why, but it's certainly nothing political. Echoing comments above, to me it's done and dusted, no point holding grudges or judging people for things that happened outside of their control so long ago.

[Sailor Steve]

American here, not British, but the u-boats sank a lot of our ships too, so I get my say:p .

I've always loved the machinery, and I've played tabletop wargames for more than 30 years. When I play airplane games I'll fly any side - German, Japanese, American, British and more. I love the machines, so I try to play with them all.

Same with naval games; be they board, tabletop or computer: It's the ships and their history that I love.

I'd better have that attitude, or Das Boot wouldn't be one of my favorite movies!:rotfl:

[skookum]

Two points here:

1. I'm from Canada. My grandfather commanded HMCS Saint John, a River Class Frigate (K456), and is credited with her only two kills: U-247 September 1st 1944, and U-309 February 16th 1945. As an individual with direct family relationship to the Battle of the Atlantic (well English Channel and North Sea anyways) I almost feel compelled to experience for myself what it was like during that time. I have a new respect for my grandfather (who died well over a decade before I was born) and my father, who himself retired from the Canadian Navy just last year.

2. Though it was a time of war, one of my ancestors was directly responsible for the deaths of nearly one hundred men. The U-Boat Kregsmarine was known as one of the least political units in the German armed forces. And it's hard to think about geopolitical affairs when you're in freezing spray on the bridge of a frigate in February. When I play SH3 I think about these things and it adds a dimension to the game that's difficult to describe.


As far as ethical considerations are concerned, SH3 is only a game (albeit an immersive one). Games hurt no one, and they're fun. End of story.

[CB..]

well to any body with a degree of insight and self honesty the entire subject of "war simulations" is MIGHTY fraught with really quite jarring contradictions..
this is no trivial concern IMO..and not a subject to be brought out briefly dusted off and put away again as rapidly as possible... as it strikes right to heart of well just about everything...the fact the question is so rarely given the time and attention it deserves is an indication of avoidance not respect

if war was unnattractive negative unwelcome ..what the hell are we doing trying to simulate it...let alone congractulate our selves heartliy on just how realisticaly we actualy do this...yet we do...all of us...me included.. time and time over again..sadly just as in real life..eh??

it's pretty darn NUTS when you openly contemplate it..

it's one of the reasons i (as an English person) to answer the point directly..found SH2/3 so fascinating...beacause all the time i was playing the games i couldn't resist the question...

"what the HELL am i doing??"

the answer well it's just a game..simply isn't a satisfying answer to any-one with an inquiring mind...it demands more respect than that..the realy interesting thing about simulations is that they often end up simulating FAR MORE than it states on the side of the box...

there really shouldn't be (and there isn't) an easy answer to all this...the question IS too important

[Hitman]

WW2 ended over 60 years ago and is now part of our history and I don't hold anything against the Germans and anyway they fell under the control of a evil party which ended in May 1945. As for the game it's just a game thats all and if anyone who have trouble separating fact from fiction well that's between you and what ever. SH3 is a game which is fun and yet many people have sat down and thought they wanted to learn about the real events of WW2 so thats not a bad idea if the game keeps an interest in history alive.

Well said Steed

I have never felt bad for playing roman in Age of Empires, and yet the romans crucified or threw to the lions those people they didn't like . It's a very different example, I know, but anyway the point is: History is history, and we recreate the non-political part of it, the one who is just about naval warfare. SH3, BF42, MOH, IL2 and all those are not games about running concentration camps and competing in gasing more victims, but instead games about the war that german & allied soldiers waged to defend their homes and families. All the nazi crap has nothing to do with them in the way they are

[siber]

I remember when I was younger, we went to meet a German family that was in contact with my mother. We stayed with them for 2 weeks but were very confused why the grandfather wouldn't talk with us. As we were preparing to leave, he came out to us, sobbing. He explained in broken English that he thought that we, as English people, would hate him because he'd fought in the Wehrmacht in WWII. He couldn't understand why we were being so nice to him and his family - he had killed British soldiers, possibly my own family members.

We explained to him that members of our family had killed German soldiers and civilians in WWII, just as he had. He then confessed to have belonged to the Nazi party. We asked whether he knew about Hitler's attrocities (you know what I mean). He didn't. He had just followed the crowd and the propaganda and the pressure from the government unquestioningly. He even relayed that he was arrested at the front line and investigated by the Gestapo for his criticism of the SS...

The point is, just because German troops served on the 'wrong' side, it doesn't necessarily mean they were evil people, lesser men or somehow unchivilrous. The majority of German servicemen in WWII were simply fighting for their country, just as soldiers of many other nations were. They killed Englishmen, we killed Germans. The Luftwaffe flattened Coventry. The RAF flattened Dresden. U-boats sank ships. Ships sank u-boats. It was war.

Aside from those directly involved in Hitler's attrocities (the leadership, the SS and members of the Gestapo etc.) I do not feel any hatred for Germany. For the most part, the average German suffered just as much as the average Englishman.

As for playing SH3, I feel that we should all experience the realities of war. I do think that it's poigniant that upon being sunk, the game returns direct to the 'death' screen. This makes it very clear how suddenly u-boat crew's lives were extinguished. This reminds me: 'If this was real, I would have just died...'

I always remember a quote in a Guestbook at Auschwitz: "If we forget the suffering of those [in the past], we must suffer again ourselves before we remember. We must remember..."

[Packerton]

I too am a Canaidian whos Grandfather served in the Battle of the Atlantic, but i remember its just a game

[papa_smurf]

As a Brit, im not at all bothered playing as a German U-boat commander. Im more interested in the history/technological achievements of that period, rather than political situation of that time.

Also im rather glad to play as a German, as most war sim games i've played heavily lean towards the allies. So I find this game a breath of fresh air, as it gives you a different perspective on WW2

[Cezbor]

I'm Polish, my family was involved in every war in Europe since Napoleon. For example my grand grand father fought against Japanees in 1905 as a Russian soldier. I'm active military officer as family tradition dictates. Many members of my family were killed fighting for freedom of Poland, Russia, Austria, Germany and Great Britain, their graves are scattered all over the Europe. Truely amazing and hard to uderstand but they fought for Poland, Russsia, Austria, Great Britain and many others. They fought in Asia, Europe and North Africa. It was result of Polish,let's say, complicated history. Poles had its gloriest victories and sad defeets. But one major truth and the most important thing, generation by generation is repeted in my family - great sens of duty to the motherland for the price of your life and devotion to those who arm in arm with you share their blood fighting for the same cause.
In my life I had an opportunity to meet many great people from all over the world. My family,due to it's history, lives in many countries.
SH 3 is only the game that reminds us the past - one of the most terrible moments in Europe - our - history .... and let's hope that this past will never knock on our door again.

[jaxa]

I'm not English, I'm Polish, but I think I have moral right to say something in this thread (maybe bigger than other Allies). 2ndWW started when Germany invaded Poland 1st September 1939, yesterday (17.09.) was anniversary of Russian attack on Poland in 1939 (many people in the West don't know that Soviet Union was the best ally of Germany up to 22 June 1941). It was many years ago. Many millions Polish died during 2ndWW, killed by Germans and Russians. My grandfathers were POW in Germany (they escaped and safely returned to home), big part of my family was deported by Soviets to Siberia, some of them died there. It's history and we must remember that. But we can't say that all Germans and all Russians were bad. Not all Germans were nazis and not all Russians were communists.
Now we have XXI age, live all over the world and we all are the same people. I don't hate you or don't like you only for this reason you are German. The hate produces conflicts, from conflict is straight road to war. You are my friend from Subsim.com forum, we both play SH3/GWX and have the same hobby. Cheers.