Ever see opposing Task Forces engage?

Incubus · 08-29-07, 11:25 PM

I'm in late 1942, the IJN has already gotten spanked in Midway yet they seem not to have gotten the message, because there is enemy aircraft and task forces all over the places. One time I saw 2 task forces within about 200 nautical miles of each other and it made me wonder if they would fight. Ever see this?

Or, perhaps, spotting an enemy task force and radoing it in, with the idea that a friendly task force nearby intercepts them. It seems like SH4 has a lot of task forces compared to SH3, which might have single ships or ONE task force. Here, there are a ton of them, on both sides.

It would also be funny to see an enemy convoy attacked by a task force.

I'm curious about this because how awesome would it be for an IJN fleet distracted by a surface/air engagement and get the opportunity to plug a Carrier or Battleship in the melee

seaniam81 · 08-30-07, 02:14 AM

I've seen the battle of midway before. I was heading back from honshu out of torpedos and almost out of fuel. I tracked some airplanes back to one of the IJN task forces. I didn't stick around to watch much.

SteamWake · 08-30-07, 09:09 AM

If two opposing forces somehow manage to bump into one another they will engage as they are passing.

Funny thing is they continue to steam on there original course.

It will also bring your machine to its knees.

tater · 08-30-07, 09:17 AM

They shoot at such short ranges it becomes pretty pointless. I made a Battle of Savo Island, and it was pathetic. The lack of ship launched torpedos makes even surface engagements horrible. Air stuff is even worse.

tater

SteamWake · 08-30-07, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

They shoot at such short ranges it becomes pretty pointless. I made a Battle of Savo Island, and it was pathetic. The lack of ship launched torpedos makes even surface engagements horrible. Air stuff is even worse.

tater

I dont know how you modders keep your sanity at times.

Between being hamstrung with flakey AI and mysterious coding not to mention the brow beating you get from the community.

tater · 08-30-07, 09:43 AM

I made it just for myself to watch, lol. The engagement ranges are so short (I could fix that now), but the lack of torpedos cripples the IJN.

I never expected CV battles to be any good, no game has ever modeled CV operations properly that I know of.

tater

DyingCrow · 08-30-07, 10:38 AM

i didnt have the chance to watch the battle at midway, but managed to get into position and killed an escort carrier and a heavy cruiser while they were retreating

Packerton · 08-30-07, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I made it just for myself to watch, lol. The engagement ranges are so short (I could fix that now), but the lack of torpedos cripples the IJN.

I never expected CV battles to be any good, no game has ever modeled CV operations properly that I know of.

tater

Battlestations midway modeled Carrier vs Carrier battles perfectly, even though its not 100% realistic.

tater · 08-30-07, 12:11 PM

It did? It modeled that the CVs needed to turn into the wind? It modeled the time to arm planes, gas them, and warm them up (all below decks for the IJN). It modeled the time it took to respot the planes forward or aft for tyhe USN, or up on the elevators for the IJN? Can the IJN CVs only spot ~1/2 a strike force on deck at a time?

If planes had a CAP aloft, and they want to land it, they have to wait for the on-deck planes first?

All of the above is required for proper CV operations (even if merely abstracted so that operations are time limited, and only 1 major operation at a time---launch planes, OR recieve planes. Spot strike package, nothing else happens, etc.

That's what I mean by proper modeling. If it doesn't take 30-45 minutes to get a strike aloft at the bare minimum for an IJN CV (assuming no interuptions like having to launch/recieve CAP aircraft), then it's not accurate. That's why I think CV airgroups need to go away in SH4 CVs, they are all in the air all the time, it's silly.

SteamWake · 08-30-07, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packerton

Battlestations midway modeled Carrier vs Carrier battles perfectly, even though its not 100% realistic.

Whats wrong with this sentance ? :p

Sorry Pack not picking on you it just struck as funny.

Ducimus · 08-30-07, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

They shoot at such short ranges it becomes pretty pointless. I made a Battle of Savo Island, and it was pathetic. The lack of ship launched torpedos makes even surface engagements horrible. Air stuff is even worse.

tater

You have to increase the gun range in the sim.cfg, and i beleive alter the max elevation for the guns as well. Making capital ship encounters is quite possible. GWX for SH3 took it too extremes. By default the AI in that mod has a max visual distance of 30 KM (while you only have 16). The gun ranges as you can also guess were increased drastically, and im really sure they altered the max elevation on the guns because if you watch the individual units, the gun arc goes waaay up there in elevation. Shots are lobbed over, not shot in a straight line of fire, so it makes sense.

tater · 08-30-07, 12:35 PM

Cool, I assumed that that was possible, just wasn't sure about exactly what needed to happen. Regardless, the IJN would be at a disadvatage in SH4 for a number of reasons:

1. Radar. The US had radar, but our ability to properly employ it took a while (case in point, Savo). In game it would be perfect.

2. Torpedos. The lack of the type 93 torpedo would cripple japanese surface forces as their doctrine was built artound them. Even their CAs are armed with torpedos.

3. Lack of AI. Escorts have the ability to move away from their waypoints to prosecute attacks, merchants are coded to scatter sometimes, large warships seem to just follow the waypoints. That means painful scripting of the missions to get what you want (possible, but a nightmare

)

tater

Incubus · 08-30-07, 02:38 PM

I'm really disappointed SH4 didn't include torpedoes as a weapon deployable by any force (friendly/enemy/ai/etc). I think that was something that hurt modding in SH3- since you couldn't code other ships using torpedoes, you couldn't direct AI-controlled U-boats for wolf pack operations (which would have been AWESOME) or model the rare (but historical) times submarines did fire at each other with torpedoes in WWII.

In my opinion, SH4 should have modeled other torpedoes. While an IJN DD would not normally fire Type 93's at a submarine, in a major DD engagement (especially at night, which was IJN's specialty early in the war) there would be torpedoes flying around everywhere, and it would be pretty exciting to be in the middle of all of it. Kates are torpedo bombers, but I can't really tell what they are dropping in this game.

The other great benefit to this is that it would have the potential for two interchangable campaigns (something that I really hoped for in SH4) where you could either command a US or IJN sub, occasionally encountering your counterpart.

tater · 08-30-07, 03:26 PM

Aircraft drop torpedoes, actually.

tater

Lafferty · 08-30-07, 04:10 PM

Man i didn't get to watch the battle i was somewhere off the coast of Japan

08-29-07, 11:25 PM	#1
Incubus Planesman Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ever see opposing Task Forces engage? I'm in late 1942, the IJN has already gotten spanked in Midway yet they seem not to have gotten the message, because there is enemy aircraft and task forces all over the places. One time I saw 2 task forces within about 200 nautical miles of each other and it made me wonder if they would fight. Ever see this? Or, perhaps, spotting an enemy task force and radoing it in, with the idea that a friendly task force nearby intercepts them. It seems like SH4 has a lot of task forces compared to SH3, which might have single ships or ONE task force. Here, there are a ton of them, on both sides. It would also be funny to see an enemy convoy attacked by a task force. I'm curious about this because how awesome would it be for an IJN fleet distracted by a surface/air engagement and get the opportunity to plug a Carrier or Battleship in the melee

08-30-07, 02:14 AM	#2
seaniam81 Commodore Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 624 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 0	I've seen the battle of midway before. I was heading back from honshu out of torpedos and almost out of fuel. I tracked some airplanes back to one of the IJN task forces. I didn't stick around to watch much. __________________ Ultima ratio regum. (The final argument of kings) - Inscription on french cannons, on order of Louis XIV

08-30-07, 09:09 AM	#3
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	If two opposing forces somehow manage to bump into one another they will engage as they are passing. Funny thing is they continue to steam on there original course. It will also bring your machine to its knees.

08-30-07, 09:17 AM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	They shoot at such short ranges it becomes pretty pointless. I made a Battle of Savo Island, and it was pathetic. The lack of ship launched torpedos makes even surface engagements horrible. Air stuff is even worse. tater

08-30-07, 09:43 AM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I made it just for myself to watch, lol. The engagement ranges are so short (I could fix that now), but the lack of torpedos cripples the IJN. I never expected CV battles to be any good, no game has ever modeled CV operations properly that I know of. tater

08-30-07, 10:38 AM	#7
DyingCrow Watch Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i didnt have the chance to watch the battle at midway, but managed to get into position and killed an escort carrier and a heavy cruiser while they were retreating

08-30-07, 12:11 PM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It did? It modeled that the CVs needed to turn into the wind? It modeled the time to arm planes, gas them, and warm them up (all below decks for the IJN). It modeled the time it took to respot the planes forward or aft for tyhe USN, or up on the elevators for the IJN? Can the IJN CVs only spot ~1/2 a strike force on deck at a time? If planes had a CAP aloft, and they want to land it, they have to wait for the on-deck planes first? All of the above is required for proper CV operations (even if merely abstracted so that operations are time limited, and only 1 major operation at a time---launch planes, OR recieve planes. Spot strike package, nothing else happens, etc. That's what I mean by proper modeling. If it doesn't take 30-45 minutes to get a strike aloft at the bare minimum for an IJN CV (assuming no interuptions like having to launch/recieve CAP aircraft), then it's not accurate. That's why I think CV airgroups need to go away in SH4 CVs, they are all in the air all the time, it's silly.

08-30-07, 12:35 PM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Cool, I assumed that that was possible, just wasn't sure about exactly what needed to happen. Regardless, the IJN would be at a disadvatage in SH4 for a number of reasons: 1. Radar. The US had radar, but our ability to properly employ it took a while (case in point, Savo). In game it would be perfect. 2. Torpedos. The lack of the type 93 torpedo would cripple japanese surface forces as their doctrine was built artound them. Even their CAs are armed with torpedos. 3. Lack of AI. Escorts have the ability to move away from their waypoints to prosecute attacks, merchants are coded to scatter sometimes, large warships seem to just follow the waypoints. That means painful scripting of the missions to get what you want (possible, but a nightmare ) tater

08-30-07, 02:38 PM	#13
Incubus Planesman Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm really disappointed SH4 didn't include torpedoes as a weapon deployable by any force (friendly/enemy/ai/etc). I think that was something that hurt modding in SH3- since you couldn't code other ships using torpedoes, you couldn't direct AI-controlled U-boats for wolf pack operations (which would have been AWESOME) or model the rare (but historical) times submarines did fire at each other with torpedoes in WWII. In my opinion, SH4 should have modeled other torpedoes. While an IJN DD would not normally fire Type 93's at a submarine, in a major DD engagement (especially at night, which was IJN's specialty early in the war) there would be torpedoes flying around everywhere, and it would be pretty exciting to be in the middle of all of it. Kates are torpedo bombers, but I can't really tell what they are dropping in this game. The other great benefit to this is that it would have the potential for two interchangable campaigns (something that I really hoped for in SH4) where you could either command a US or IJN sub, occasionally encountering your counterpart.

08-30-07, 03:26 PM	#14
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Aircraft drop torpedoes, actually. tater

08-30-07, 04:10 PM	#15
Lafferty Officer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hot Springs Arkansas Posts: 245 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Man i didn't get to watch the battle i was somewhere off the coast of Japan